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Author Topic:   apocryphal stories and mainstream theology
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2 of 29 (123948)
07-12-2004 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by arachnophilia
07-12-2004 12:31 PM


Life of Adam and Eve.
One of the things that is interesting regarding the Life of Adam and Eve is that it implies that mankind was actually something above even the angels. It shows the angels being told to bow down and worship mankind. It also seems to say that the reason that the devil was tossed from the heavenly kingdom was simply because certain angels would not worship mankind.
But there are also many inconsistencies between the various translations. In addition, it adds so many other things that are not mentioned in Genesis that it would have been difficult, if not impossible, to blend it in with the Gensis stories. There were already conflicts and problems with Genesis and adding in the Life of Adam and Eve would have complicated matters even more. As is, no one has ever been able to resolve the differences even in the two Creation stories found in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 7 of 29 (130301)
08-04-2004 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by almeyda
08-04-2004 3:48 AM


Actually almeyda, the Apocrypha did not even exist until near the end of the 4th Century. The books now called the apocrypha were simply part of the accepted canon of many of the churches. In fact, some books of the apocypha are still part of the canon, for example, look at the canon of the Ethiopian Cristian Church.
One book that was included, the Gospel of John, was also considered heritical by many of the churches.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 29 (130446)
08-04-2004 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Cold Foreign Object
08-04-2004 7:13 PM


Nonsense WILLOWTREE.
First, many of the Apocryphal books are still apart of the canon of some churches.
Second, by the fourth century, not long after the first gospels (which we don't have) showed up, many of the books included in the apocrypha were being challenged.
It had nothing to do with Puritans or British and American Bible Societies.
Where do you get some of these ideas?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 12 of 29 (130451)
08-04-2004 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Cold Foreign Object
08-04-2004 7:32 PM


It still does. But not all of the Apocrypha.
You can buy one here
Where do you get some of your info? Even Gene Scott can't be that out of touch.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 29 (130803)
08-05-2004 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Cold Foreign Object
08-05-2004 6:30 PM


Anytime someone wants to muzzle a source I want to know why.
What in the world are you talking about?
The Apocrypha was not a part of the canon when the KJV came out. Who is muzzling any source? That is why it is called the KJV PLUS the Aprocrypha.
Have you read the Apocrypha? How about the OT Aprocrypha?
What makes you think anyone has muzzled anyone?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 21 of 29 (131847)
08-09-2004 11:11 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Jeannot
08-09-2004 9:44 AM


Re: Side issue
That's correct, however
# Additions to Daniel (Apocrypha)
# Judith (Apocrypha)
# Esdras (Apocrypha)
# Additions to Esther (Apocrypha)
# Susanna (Apocrypha)
# 1 Maccabees (Apocrypha)
# 2 Maccabees (Apocrypha)
# 4 Ezra (Apocrypha)
# Prayer of Manassheh (Apocrypha)
# Sirach (Apocrypha)
# Wisdom of Solomon (Apocrypha)
# Baruch (including the Epistle of Jeremiah) (Apocrypha)
# Tobit (Apocrypha)
# Bel (Apocrypha
were included in the 1611 King James Version of the Bible.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 23 of 29 (131879)
08-09-2004 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Jeannot
08-09-2004 11:45 AM


Re: ???
When replying, use the little red reply button on the post you are replying to. That keeps things threaded and notifies the poster that someone replied.
Yes, in the 1611 KJV the books that I listed were called the Apochrypha.
There are quite a few other books though that are also considered apochryphal, even more than just the ones in the 1611 list. Also, manty that are considered Aporchrypahal by the Roman Catholic and Protestant faiths are included in the basic canon of other churches.
For example, in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, 1 Esdras and the Ezra Apocalypse, Pseudo-Josephus, Jubilees and Enoch are included. In the New Testament, the Book of the Covenant, Clement and Didascalia are included.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Jeannot, posted 08-09-2004 2:23 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 25 of 29 (131959)
08-09-2004 2:39 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Jeannot
08-09-2004 2:23 PM


Re: ???
Like that. Way to go.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 423 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 29 (188709)
02-26-2005 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by custard
02-26-2005 6:46 AM


Timelines and content?
Not sure if anyone wants to help resurrect this thread (arach, jar), but after doing some reading recently I find how woefully ignorant I am of the apocrypha, etc.
So are many of us. It's really sad because a vast history is missing. We really know very little about the founding of Christianity. It's very much a mystery novel that ends without telling you who dunnit, and infact, only gives you hints of what was done.
For example, we know that Mary played a large and important role in the early church. But almost nothing has survived to tell us what part that was or why so little is known of it. We know that after the resurrection, a large body of Apostles were chosen and sent out. But that's all we know. We don't know their names, their missions or any results. Were Paul and Peter the only ones writing copious letters? Where are all the correspondence of the other Apostles?
I was wondering if there were any good timeline maps or spreadsheets sort of showing which books were used when starting with the Torah?
Unfortunately there are lots of them. The problem is that they often disagree and we are left to try to sort out the differences. But here are a couple good sources where you can start.
Start here for an overview of the World's Religions
and here for some books. While at this site be sure to read the Introduction to the First Book of Adam and Eve. It gives a marvelous insight to some of the problems inherent.
and this is a good introduction to the Kabbalah.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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