Damn fig tree!

Hi Yaro,I don't fit the category of believer but, IMO, this story was retro-fitted into the Jesus narrative from a later Christian perspective.That later Christian perspective using the imagery of the fig tree as symbolic of Israel. From OT exegesis, Israel, as God's people, were expected to be the light and substance of YHWH to the nations.The doctrine also developed that the 1st advent and crucifixion of Jesus would begin the "times of the Gentiles" (wherein a blinding "veil" would be over the eyes of the Jews). Thus, Israel's original commission as the "fruit" of YHWH before the nations has now been revoked and re-instituted in the "church" and, as such, it is now not Israel's "season".That is how I understand it,AmlodhiThis message has been edited by Amlodhi, 08-02-2004 11:45 PM

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Originally posted by Yaro

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Wow, thats kinda harsh! Could this not be interpreted as that Isreal is now hated by god or somthing?

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Certainly harsh. Remember that this originated from the perspective of the burgeoning "church" in the "church age". At this time, people tended to be less "politically correct" and diplomatic about these things than is expected today. And it has, indeed, been the rationale for the persecution of Jews from various quarters and at various times throughout history.However, this doctrine is also mollified by the further contention that "in the last days", Israel will shed her blinders, realize that Jesus was the Messiah, and once again assume the position of YHWH's priesthood.The implication is that even though it is Israel's folly, her temporary blindness is necessary for the implementation of the church age and the salvation of the Gentiles. Thus, even though it is pre-ordained to be so, Israel (like the fig tree), must remain "unfruitful" until the end times.As ever, namaste'Amlodhi

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Originally posted by mike the wiz

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Attacks on me are getting boring

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Hi mike,Who's attacking you?

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mike the wiz:

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I think you and Yaro are digging deeply into the death of this Fig tree.

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And yet, I said nothing about the tree dying. I responded to the question of why Jesus was depicted as withering a fig tree that sensibly shouldn't have been expected to produce fruit out of season.My response was, and remains, that IMO it is early church symbology designed to express the theological doctrines described in my previous posts.I have no desire to argue the nuances of that conceived doctrine beyond the simple point of why the story was written. As to any conflicting symbology, it is enough to say that they were arguing about it then, just as others are still arguing about it today.Also, though I am quite confident that Yaro doesn't need me to be her lawyer, I find no instance in which she concluded that God hates Israel. Are you sure that isn't just your projection?As ever, namaste'Amlodhi

Hello again, mike,I see. We are coming at this from different backgrounds.I've seen this basic question many times before and it is often presented in the sense of, "Why was Jesus so stupid?". In fact, there is presently a thread on this topic in another forum with that exact quote as its title.There are many who are truly curious as to why Jesus withered that tree. When it is explained to them that it is a symbolic prefiguration of church doctrine and actually has nothing to do with seasonal fig production, the story usually begins to make sense to them.In peace,AmlodhiThis message has been edited by Amlodhi, 08-03-2004 06:19 PM

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Originally posted by purpledawn

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They interpret the story to mean the religious leaders as opposed to Israel as a group.

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Understandably, they would. And the interpretations will always be diverse and argued. Some good, some neutral, and some leading to outright atrocities.The common point is that the story was not written to record Jesus' effect on gross national fig production in Judea.Amlodhi