|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
Member (Idle past 6383 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Is eugenics the logical result of Darwinism? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
Well Nazi race idea come from Gobineau who published before Darwin.
Eugenics had its own popularity - and I would suggest that it appealed to Nazis because of the link to their ideas of racial superiority. As for the persecution of Jews and homosexuals, that has even less to do with evolution than it has to do with Christianity.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
PaulK writes:
William L. Shirer's The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich has a chapter on "The Mind of Hitler and the Roots of the Third Reich". It discusses the influence on Hitler's thinking of Gobineau, Nietzsche, Chamberlain, and even Wagner. I can't say for sure that Darwin isn't in the book (~1500 pages) but he isn't in the Index or the Bibliography, and neither is "evolution". Well Nazi race idea come from Gobineau who published before Darwin. People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
Here's a passage from Mein Kampf:
"Naure herself in times of great poverty or bad climatic conditions, as well as poor harvest, intervenes to restrict the increase of population of certain countries or races; this, to be sure, by a method as wise as it is ruthless. She diminishes, not the power of procreation as such, but the conservation of the procreated, by exposing them to hard trials and deprivations with the result that all those who are less strong and less healthy are forced back into the womb of the eternal unknown. Those whom she permits to survive the inclemency of existence are a thousandfold tested, hardened, and well adapted to procreate in turn, in order that the process of thoroughgoing selection may begin again from the beginning. By thus brutally proceeding against the individual and immediately calling him back to herself as soon as he shows himself unequal to the storm of life, she keeps the race and species strong, in fact, raises them to the highest accomplishments." Is this not very remindful of natural selection? Biblio. info: Translator Ralph Mannheim. Boston: Houghton Mifflin, 1971., p. 131.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
It sounds like natural selection - but there's no hint of evolution as such. It talks of keeping a species strong - not producing new species. I'm pretty sure that it is consistent with pre-Darwianin ideas of natural selection.
See:Darwin's precursors and influences: 4. Natural selection And the preceding section has a little more.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
Let me slightly adjust what I stated before, which was that there might be a connection between Nazism and TOE. By TOE I mean a theory of evolution, not necessarily the modern version of TOE.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 442 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
robinrohan writes:
Yes it is, but people have known about natural selection as long as there have been people. Is this not very remindful of natural selection? Eugenics in general - the "weeding out" of the sick, etc. - is an attempt to help nature along (assuming that we know the direction nature is going). Hitler's exterminations, on the other hand, went against natural selection by killing strong Jews, etc. as well as weak. By arbitrarily killing those he percieved as being weaker, he actually weakened the gene pool instead of strengthening it. The topic is: Is eugenics the logical result of Darwinism? I say, no it is not. The logical result of Darwinism is: let nature decide. People who think they have all the answers usually don't understand the questions.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
Well obviously your quote doesn't help you. It corresponds well with non-evolutionary ideas of natural selection, not pre-Darwinain theories of evolution.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
Let me see if I can get through Mein Kampf; if I find something else that relates, I'll let you know.
I'm not so sure what's stated here is "non-evolutionary."
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17828 Joined: Member Rating: 2.4 |
Well perhaps you can investigate Blyth's version of natural selection and explain how the version in Mein Kampf is evolutionary where Blyth's is not.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
From Mein Kampf:
I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work." Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
It is possible, Jar, that Hitler could believe in evolution and God at the same time. I noted what you quoted when I read it, and I do not think I am "quote-mining."
I'm a little offended by that remark, because I am trying to be objective. You probably don't believe me, but it's true.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Well, I believe in God and Evolution so I see no reason that wouldn't be true for most folk.
But I don't believe you want to go down that path since there is a near unending stream of quotes from Hitler and his government justifying his actions on Christian beliefs.
Except the Lord built the house they labour in vain.... The truth of that text was proved if one looks at the house of which the foundations were laid in 1918 and which since then has been in building.... The world will not help, the people must help itself. Its own strength is the source of life. That strength the Almighty has given us to use; that in it and through it we may wage the battle of our life.... The others in the past years have not had the blessing of the Almighty-- of Him Who in the last resort, whatever man may do, holds in His hands the final decision. Lord God, let us never hesitate or play the coward, let us never forget the duty which we have taken upon us.... We are all proud that through God's powerful aid we have become once more true Germans. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in March 1933 Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
I see no mention of Jesus Christ.
Wouldn't it be necessary to at least mention Him if one was a Christian?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Wouldn't it be necessary to at least mention Him if one was a Christian? Not always. Consider this one:
The Government, being resolved to undertake the political and moral purification of our public life, are creating and securing the conditions necessary for a really profound revival of religious life.... The National Government regard the two Christian Confessions as the weightiest factors for the maintenance of our nationality. They will respect the agreements concluded between them and the federal States. Their rights are not to be infringed.... It will be the Government's care to maintain honest co-operation between Church and State; the struggle against materialistic views and for a real national community is just as much in the interest of the German nation as in that of the welfare of our Christian faith. The Government of the Reich, who regard Christianity as the unshakable foundation of the morals and moral code of the nation, attach the greatest value to friendly relations with the Holy See and are endeavouring to develop them. -Adolf Hitler, in his speech to the Reichstag on 23 March 1933 Shall I continue? Aslan is not a Tame Lion
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||
robinrohan Inactive Member |
Can I hear something about Jesus Christ? And how he is Hitler's Lord and Savior?
You got that?
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024