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Author
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Topic: How do Christians deal with the violence in the Bible?
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 46 of 221 (228079)
07-31-2005 10:32 AM
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Reply to: Message 45 by nator
07-31-2005 10:26 AM
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Re: But is it the real God or just imagination?
My point, dear Schraf, is that he picks and chooses from the Bible, only the parts that fit what he wants God to be like. I explained it quite clearly as the post proceeded but you like to pretend I just made a flat assertion, don't you? As for being famous, well, I'm one of millions who believe as I do. I may be famous HERE of course because there are so few of us here ...
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 45 by nator, posted 07-31-2005 10:26 AM | | nator has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 49 by nator, posted 07-31-2005 11:27 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Message 47 of 221 (228083)
07-31-2005 10:42 AM
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Reply to: Message 43 by nator
07-31-2005 10:15 AM
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schrafinator writes: So, is secular Sweden living by God's law, as they have one of the best standards of living in the world? Well in the first place there is more to having a joyful life than material standard of living. In another post I said that loving God means loving goodness and hating evil. If as a nation Sweden celebrates a genuine love of goodness and their neighbour then why not. This message has been edited by GDR, 07-31-2005 06:00 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 43 by nator, posted 07-31-2005 10:15 AM | | nator has not replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1498 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 48 of 221 (228084)
07-31-2005 10:43 AM
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Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
07-31-2005 10:19 AM
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Re: just a question
As usual, you didn't bother to get the whole point let alone think about what I was saying. I don't see how guilt or innocence depends on who's accusing you. Either you're guilty, or your innocent. That has nothing to do with anybody else.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 44 by Faith, posted 07-31-2005 10:19 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 49 of 221 (228094)
07-31-2005 11:27 AM
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Reply to: Message 46 by Faith
07-31-2005 10:32 AM
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Re: But is it the real God or just imagination?
quote:
My point, dear Schraf, is that he picks and chooses from the Bible, only the parts that fit what he wants God to be like.
All of you do that. You pick and choose what parts of the bible to take literally, too. Going to drink any poison soon? Healed anyone of disease by touching them lately?
quote:
I explained it quite clearly as the post proceeded but you like to pretend I just made a flat assertion, don't you? As for being famous, well, I'm one of millions who believe as I do. I may be famous HERE of course because there are so few of us here ...
You may think that many, many other people believe as you do regarding the literal truth of the Bible, but you are outnumbered by about 2:1 by those christians who do not take a literal interpretation. More people believe that Astrology is real that believe in a literal Bible.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 46 by Faith, posted 07-31-2005 10:32 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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General Nazort
Inactive Member
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Re: just a question
god tells us not to kill; but god kills. it actually stands to reason that the thing god tells US not to do are the thing that are only for HIM to do. Exactly! According to the Bible, God created all life. Doesn't it follow that if he created life he has the right to take it away? And that humans, who did not create life, don't have the right to take it away? In other words, what is wrong for humans is not necessarily wrong for God?
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 51 by Chiroptera, posted 07-31-2005 2:42 PM | | General Nazort has replied |
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Re: just a question
quote:
Doesn't it follow that if he created life he has the right to take it away?
No, it doesn't follow at all.
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 52 of 221 (228157)
07-31-2005 4:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 39 by Faith
07-31-2005 7:32 AM
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Re: genocide
4) I think I've lost track of your point. Or mine. There was something else I was going to say but can't remember it. Oh well. i'm not really arguing. as i said above, i think your right, at least in the fact that this is the most accurate reading of the bible, in my opinion. just pointing out that it's not always god who delivers the wrath of god.
אָרַח
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 39 by Faith, posted 07-31-2005 7:32 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Re: just a question
Doesn't it follow that if he created life he has the right to take it away? No, it doesn't follow at all. i think it does. we're not talking about parents "creating" life in the form of children, but a god creating life in terms of ALL life.
אָרַח
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 51 by Chiroptera, posted 07-31-2005 2:42 PM | | Chiroptera has not replied |
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1374 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: 05-21-2004
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Message 54 of 221 (228162)
07-31-2005 5:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 41 by Faith
07-31-2005 7:49 AM
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Re: just a question
God does NOT violate His command against killing, which correctly means murder, or the killing of an INNOCENT without cause. what innocent? who among us is innocent?
quote:
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Rom 5:13 For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
quote:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death
according to paul, whom i know you believe, we all sin, and we all deserve death. also, "thou shalt not kill" doesn't neccessarily imply murder of innocents. there's another commandment for that:
quote:
Exd 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.
He also prescribed the death penalty for many of the offenses He spells out in His law, and the way to understand God's "killings" is to recognize that they are in fact the Death Penalty -- justice, not murder. yes. and we are not kill -- OUTSIDE of that law. the point is that god makes that decision, we do not. and according to the law, not all sin requires death.
In human justice, we decide innocence or guilt on particular crimes, all being innocent until proven guilty. God does the same, as shown in the Bible, but also in God's eyes we are all guilty and will all eventually die, not if you believe in original sin. original sin basically says that because of the fall of adam and eve, we are all born sinful. we start of guilty, and have to be redeemed -- see paul above.
Without the Bible's revelations of the causes, all the wars and slaughters that go on in the world all the time would still go on, but without any explanation beyond the evil propensities of humanity. and yet they still go on, and often without any good explanation. This message has been edited by arachnophilia, 07-31-2005 05:09 PM
אָרַח
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 41 by Faith, posted 07-31-2005 7:49 AM | | Faith has not replied |
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General Nazort
Inactive Member
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Re: just a question
No, it doesn't follow at all. Why not?
The LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 51 by Chiroptera, posted 07-31-2005 2:42 PM | | Chiroptera has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 56 by Chiroptera, posted 07-31-2005 8:23 PM | | General Nazort has replied |
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Re: just a question
Why does it? It's your argument: Premise: God creates life. Conclusion: God has the right to take it away. There's stuff in the middle that's missing.
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General Nazort
Inactive Member
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Re: just a question
Premise: God created life. It follows that since God made life, all life belongs to him, to do what he wants with. That could include taking the life away. Conclusion: God has the right to take life away. Why wouldn't God have the right to do whatever he wants with what he and he alone created?
The LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 56 by Chiroptera, posted 07-31-2005 8:23 PM | | Chiroptera has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 58 by Chiroptera, posted 07-31-2005 8:39 PM | | General Nazort has replied | | | Message 59 by GDR, posted 07-31-2005 9:19 PM | | General Nazort has not replied | | | Message 63 by Rahvin, posted 08-01-2005 12:00 PM | | General Nazort has replied |
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Re: just a question
Sorry, don't mean to be difficult, General, but you are the one who claims that it obvious.
quote:
It follows that since God made life, all life belongs to him, to do what he wants with.
No, it just doesn't follow, at least not immediately. Maybe it's obvious to you, but it's just as obvious to me that this is not true.
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GDR
Member Posts: 6202 From: Sidney, BC, Canada Joined: 05-22-2005 Member Rating: 2.3
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Re: just a question
General Nazort writes: Why wouldn't God have the right to do whatever he wants with what he and he alone created? Of course God has the right to do whatever he wants. However, some how I don't think that God is overly concerned about his rights, but He is concerned with what is right.
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General Nazort
Inactive Member
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Re: just a question
Sorry, don't mean to be difficult, General, but you are the one who claims that it obvious. No, it just doesn't follow, at least not immediately. Maybe it's obvious to you, but it's just as obvious to me that this is not true. Okay... could you help me understand why you don't think its true? Also please read this - I think it will help you see my point of view.
The LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 58 by Chiroptera, posted 07-31-2005 8:39 PM | | Chiroptera has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 68 by Chiroptera, posted 08-01-2005 2:42 PM | | General Nazort has replied |
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