How do Christians deal with the violence in the Bible?

It was the serpent, not God, who said before they ate of the tree that they would become like God or gods. After the fact they are confused and ashamed and hiding -- some gods! Some commentators believe that God is being sarcastic here. In any case clearly Adam and Eve were humiliated and terrified after their act of disobedience, so their new knowledge was not the great boon you are trying to make it out to be. Here's one commentary:

A literal reading of Genesis 3 also supports the position that the serpent was truthful in everyway, but perhaps only selctively. The said their eyes would be opened and they would have knowedge like God ... Their eyes were opened and God confirms things just as the serpent said. The story is an allegory about the responsibility to do good instead of bad. It's a charge on all humans to try to do what's right, another morality play where punishments are used to make a point.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

There is enormous symbolism in the Bible. Almost every event and simple fact, name, place, etc., reverberates with symbolism and metaphorical meanings that continue through to the end. The objection to reading the Bible AS allegory or metaphor is an objection to the DENIAL THAT THESE ARE REAL EVENTS. If you accept them as real events, THEN they have tremendous symbolic and metaphorical significance to be plumbed beyond anybody's ability to get to the bottom of it all.I have to take a break for a few hours but hope to return to this thread later.

They have a ton of meaning for those of us who don't take it literally, too.But you're picking and choosing. God SAID that "man has become like us, knowing good and evil." There's no textual reason to say that the comment was sarcastic. There is ever reason to read it exactly as it is written. If man does NOT understand good and evil as God does, then God lied. In this instance, there is no middle ground - God either said this or He dodn't, and if He did, then He either told the truth (and the human moral compass is the same as God's) or He lied.Why is it so hard to bleive that humanity has the same moral undertanding that God does? All of the examples that you've brought up to show otherwise simply confirm that man doesn't have the moral stength to stick to the moral compass, not that the compass is flawed.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Their humiliation, confusion, hiding, etc., is the main reason to suspect that either the comment was sarcastic or that perhaps it was simply a sad comment on the tragedy that had happened, which is shown in their pathetic condition, not exactly what one would expect of "gods." It is not an easy passage to interpret but the idea that their disobedience was a good thing is simply belied by what happened to them afterward. If it is simply truth rather than sarcasm, and either is possible from the context, then it is not a happy truth, judging from what happened to them as a result. Perhaps it is simply that God's knowledge can't be handled by humanity. And certainly with our propensity to sin, which God doesn't have. The compass is shown to be flawed by the simple fact that the entire human race cannot agree on an objective moral standard, as a recent thread on the subject confirmed here, so it's not only that we KNOW what's right but can't act on it, but we have moral confusion about what IS right. This is considered to be a legacy of the Fall which severed the previous spiritual connectedness between God and Adam and Eve.MUST stop for a while.

After all. We are made in his image.

We blew it at the Fall, so now have a very broken remant of the image of God in us.

Because it's a whole lot easier to just say "I can't help it, I'm fallen". The Fall has been used as a cop-out for thousands of years. It's a handy excuse to move the blame from the current individual to Adam & Eve.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

But nowhere is there a reason to believe that God didn't mean EXACTLY as He said, regardless of any emotional undertones - "man has become like us, knowing good and evil." IF the Bible is literally true, then man knows good and evil just like God. Red herring. Again, the emotional undertones of the statement are irrelevant - "man has become like us, knowing good and evil." All that is relevant to this discussion ois whether man knows good and evil as God does - and the Bible says that we have the same moral compass. How many believe that murder is moral? How many believe that theft is good? Who would say that caring for others is a bad thing?But this is irrelevant. We are talking about scripture, and the violence it speaks of. The Bible says that man and God share the same knowledge of good and evil. If this is so, then how can an act be evil for men to do, but justified if God does it?

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

Agreed.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.

There was no fall. Someone is not responsible unless they know that they are doing wrong, and understand the consequences of their action. Before partiacing of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, man was innocent.. and unable to understand the consequences.God set man up on purpose.. so that man could learn to be responsible for his own actions. Man has to have the ability to choose incorrectly to be able to choose correctly, and therefore learn to live a sanctificed life. If man did not do that, man would be just as the beasts of the field, and no more.

If you think you can establish an objective universal moral code the thread for that purpose needs you.

*loud razzzzberry* Oh really? I haven't seen anybody excuse anything by the Fall. Those who believe in it know we are guilty and need God's forgiveness. Most others hate the whole idea because it shows we're not so moral as we think we are, so they deny it and say really we're basically good and like gods and all that, and call the God of the Bible a big meanie. Sure seems to be the going theory around here.

For those people who 'know' they have sinned, the Tanakh is full of ways for a person to get atonement.A blood sacrifice is not required, or was even a prefered method. The blood sacrifice of a human being was forbidden. It is a personal responsiblty to ask for forgiveness, rather than letting someone else take your burden up for you.Let's look at some key passages.Isaiah 1:11-18

quote:

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"11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? saith the L-rd; I am full of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats.

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12 When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, to trample My courts?

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13 Bring no more vain oblations; it is an offering of abomination unto Me; new moon and sabbath, the holding of convocations--I cannot endure iniquity along with the solemn assembly.

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14 Your new moons and your appointed seasons My soul hateth; they are a burden unto Me; I am weary to bear them.

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15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear; your hands are full of blood.

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16 Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes, cease to do evil;

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17 Learn to do well; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow

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18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the L-rd; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool. "

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Michah 6:7-8

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"7 Will the L-rd be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?'

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8 It hath been told thee, O man, what is good, and what the L-rd doth require of thee: only to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy G-d."

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and Proverbs 21:3

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To do righteousness and justice is more acceptable to the L-rd than sacrifice.

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ALl point to the personal responsiblity of the individual, not accepting of someone elses sacrifice.It is by accepting personal responsilbity that people grow, and live more sanctified lives.

Okay, let's get back on topic then. All well and good from your religious point of view, but hardly on topic. I apologize for my participation in this tangent. If we go down this path, we'll never get back to the original thread.So, Faith: Was God lying when He said that "man has become like us, knowing good and evil"?IF He spoke the truth, then man can tell good from evil just as well as God can. If man can tell good from evil just as God can, why should a double standard exist for God with regards to mass murder? Saying "they deserved it" is simply blaming the victim - or do you propose that we start killing all non-Christins, or killing anyone who has "immoral" sex? If it was good when God did it, wouldn't it be good for us to do?And again - what is the problem with believing that people 3000+ years ago were different from people today in their personal religious crusades? People today constantly claim to be doing God's Will, and use the Bible to justify horrific actions. They even say "God TOLD me to," just like in the biblical stories. Why would the biblical authors/characters be any different? Were they somehow not human?If your response is that God would not allow His deeds and Word to be misunderstood, then how do you reconcile the plain fact that there are so many different denominations of Christianity? They can't all be right - they all interpret something differently from all of the others.I find my understanding to be far more in keeping with both reality and the God described in the Bible as a whole. Please, help me to understand why you believe the way you do - that evil acts are justified if God does them.

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Every time a fundy breaks the laws of thermodynamics, Schroedinger probably kills his cat.