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Author | Topic: Vestiges for Peter B. | |||||||||||||||||||||
derwood Member (Idle past 1906 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
If there are no such things as vestiges, as you confidently proclaim in another thread, please provide the evidence that the following structures are not vestigial:
femurs in whales auricularis muscles in humans extensor coccygis in humans I have the feeling that either the Peter Borger that posts here is not the Peter Borger with actual scientific publications, or that he is but he is just another creationist with a degree.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1906 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Yes, it does, doesn't it? Of course, a cautious reader would have noticed that I did not even mention the coccyx. I believe that this tactic is called a red herring?quote: Of course it has a function - many, in fact. What that has to say about it being vestigial or not I have no idea. Of course, again, I did not even mention the coccyx.
quote: Please do. Or better yet, you can start informing me of something worthwhile and at least ON TOPIC.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1906 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
I was hoping "Peter B" would tell me some more about the coccyx....
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derwood Member (Idle past 1906 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
Hey Peter B. - I thought you were going to tell me more about the coccyx and how it is not a vestige.
Of course, I never even mentioned the coccyx, did I?
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derwood Member (Idle past 1906 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: I am sorry that I forgot that as az creationist, you will provide all sorts of personal definitions and then demand that everything meet your personal definitions.Allow me to explain: The extensor coccygis is not even present in all people. Indeed, most modern anatomy texts do not even list it or describe it.Before I waste time with this, I will have to see evidence that you understand the terms I will be using, and have an understanding of anatomy. You failed utterly in your treatment of the foramen magnum, for example. I am an anatomist by education, so I do have a solid understanding here. Do you understand what extension is? Do you understand what muscles do? Lets hope so. If you do, then we can proceed.quote: I am all a tingle that you were able to search the lit and find this amazing disproof of all vestigial structures. However, this has nothing to do with the extensor coccygis or the auricularis group of muscles.quote: You have the overconfidence of a creationist.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1906 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: I can understand why you would write this.
quote: Yes, I have heard of the thymus. I teach immunology. Can you explain when the thymus was seen as "proof" of evolution as a vestigial structure?Can you then explain why it is no longer considered a vestigial structure? The 'conclusion jumping', as you call it (hmmm.... projection?) was due to a lack of evidence to the contrary. When evidence was uncovered to the contrary, a new understanding was possible. The only way that your absurd charge would have merit would be if evolutionists still insisted that the adult thymus is a vestige. But that isn't the case, is it, Peter B.? Of course, if one wants to talk abouit conclusion jumping, I suggest one go no further than the nearset creationist website. Or Peter B. post.quote: Yes, I do. You seem to have been doing quite a bit of it on this board. Of course, considering your humiliating forays into areas of science that are not your own, I don't think I am doing this. I notice that you did not answer my question.quote: Oh, well, pardon me. I guess that means that the entire farrago of 'vestigial structures' is a sham. Is that NOT what you intend? Or is this supposed to be something else?[quote]
quote: What - no statment of indignation?No irrelevant snippet? Hmmmm..... quote: No, it is entirely warranted. You, a creationist, claim that "science" will 'proof' that there are no vestiges.This claim has been circulating for years - maybe decades. Just like the claim that molecular biology will 'disprove' evolution, ala TB. Of course, that asinine 'prediction' was made over a decade ago, and the opposite seems to have more basis in reality than the creationist bombast. No, quite warranted. And what was your 'concern' again? That horses don't have a vestigial hoof muscle because it does something, therefore it can't be vestigial?
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derwood Member (Idle past 1906 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
AiG?
My, Peter B., your true colors are showing. Do we have yet another claim of a conspiracy? Gene trees do not match species trees (on occasion)? Well, shiver me timbers, Peter B! That is not a secret, it is well known, oft discussed, and well understood. Yet anohter example of the creationist taking tidbits of information in areas that they have minimal knowledge in and trying to make something out of it. Sure, "Peter B", I will discuss the IL beta gene trees, and anything else you would like to. But, so as not to waste my time, you will need to demonstrate that you have a basic understanding of the topic.It gets annoying when one's opponant sees no problem conflating terms and concepts and haphazardly using terminology.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1906 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Funny, I didn't realise that reading a Spetner (creationist) book, claiming support form papaers that you hadn't even read, and claiming that science will disproof vestigials indicated a lack of bias on your part. I have read the 'opposition' and found it sorely lackiing. Please do not engage in projection - that too is a common creationist trait, and since you finally gave up your ruse (pretending not to be one), I think your desparation is starting to show.
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