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Author Topic:   Paul of Tarsus - the first Christian?
loko 
Inactive Member


Message 133 of 219 (230057)
08-05-2005 8:21 AM


We must not put the bible before God, there are things that cannot be said by the Spirit so we must decide to follow Paul or Yeshua.
Paul And The Law
-The constant feature on Paul letters are his references to the Law and salvation by faith alone:
For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law. (Rom 3:28)
-There is nobody that can be blameless regarding the Law. This is why our sins are forgiven by faith in Jesus and grace. Does this mean that him who has faith doesnt have to observe the law?
You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. (gal. 5:4)
Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. (Gal. 5:2)
-According to Paul we must not observe it, but him who observe it has no possible forgiveness from his sins. What is the opinion of Paul about the Law?
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (gal. 3:13)
The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law (1 cor. 15:56)
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them (gal 3:10)
-Is the Law a curse? Is the law the strength of sin? Or the curse and the power of sin is to not fulfil it. Lets look what we have to do according to Paul.
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (rom 6:14)
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. (Rom. 7:25)
-Is this the same as what taught Jesus?
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever (John 8:34-35)
-Do we overcome sin by faith, or by faith with works?
For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.(rom. 4:2-5)
-If you sin it doesnt matter because you are under grace, but if you do the works of the law you are the only sinner according to Paul. Lets look to the passage what Paul refers to:
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son: That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies; And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice. (gen 22:16-18)
-Abrahams faith implied to obey Gods command but Paul says that its ok him who do not act but has faith. This was not Abrahams case.
Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abrahams children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. (John 8:39-40)
-What taught the apostle James regarding this?
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. (James 2:14-23)
-It seems that the "apostle" Paul and the apostle James difer in their points of view. What of them its more close to what Jesus taught?
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (mat 7:21)
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Mat 19:17)
Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect (Mat 5:48)
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. (Mat. 16:27)
-Jesus taught that we should follow the commandments. That nobody can be blameless dont justify to dont do anything.
Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. (Luk 13:24)
-Paul says that the Law is abolished and all things are lawful.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (eph 2:14-15)
All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. (1 cor.6:12)
-Did Jesus abolish the Law and say that all things are lawful?
Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Mat. 5:17-19)
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. (Mat 5:29)
-Its evident that there were discrepancies between Paul and the apostles:
But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those superapostles. (2 cor 11:5)
-Paul says that he is blameless:
Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. (phil 3:4-6) (blameless persecuting the righteouss? Does not he said that nobody can be blameless regarding the Law?)
-What does an apostle have to do to reach converses?
And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. (1 cor 9:20-22)
-What instructions gave Jesus to his apostles?
And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you. And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. (Mat 10:13-14)
-We can find some new doctrines in Paul letters.
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 tim. 11:12)
Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head. But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered. (1 Cor. 11:4-6)
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. (1 cor. 14:34-37) (I havent read this commandment in the law. Doesnt say Paul that we must not follow the Law?)
-Paul also blasphemes and says that he is the Father and the Son:
After all, though you should have ten thousand teachers in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the Gospel. (1 cor 4:15)
But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mothers womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: (gal. 1:15-16)
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (Mat. 23:9)
-We must seek what Jesus taught and not what Paul taught, because paul contradicts Jesus.
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. (John 8:31-32)
I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: (rev 2:2)
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? (rom 3:7)
But be it so, I did not burden you: nevertheless, being crafty, I caught you with guile. (2 cor 12:16)

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by ramoss, posted 08-05-2005 9:54 AM loko has not replied
 Message 136 by Phat, posted 08-05-2005 11:31 AM loko has not replied

  
loko 
Inactive Member


Message 135 of 219 (230130)
08-05-2005 11:16 AM


luther was another antichristian, but the people who really seek God will not be deceived.

  
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