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Author | Topic: Joshua's Long Day | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Jex writes:
What kind of stuff in the atmosphere that caused this refraction?
Some people say that refraction in the atmosphere could cause the sun to appear to stand still, and cause it still to provide light, for the length of time involved. Others (or at least one) think that the Sun turned 180 degrees round the Earth
He is asking how this was done.
There are theories that these were particles from the tail of a giant meteor, a meteor big enough, perhaps, to alter the spin of the Earth?
Do you have a clue to how big our planet is? No comet's tail can take away such an enormous rotational momentum. If the spin is altered, where the heck did the energy go?
Some say there was a "wobble" in the Earth's axis that caused the Sun to take a different apparent path - perhaps also caused by a meteor or comet.
Again, this requires an enormous amount of kinetic energy that would have destroyed all civilization on earth... and possibly most life on earth.
Even a slowing or stopping of the Earth (by supernatural means) would not cause too many problematic consequences.
This is probably the best answer to the main question. This reminds me of the movie "The Core". I was probably the only person in the theater that had this question in mind, "if the core stopped spinning, where the heck did all the energy go?" The Laminator
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Steen writes:
Not necessarily a useless argument. As far as I can see, the "goddunit" argument, from the perspective of the fundies, is probably the strongest and most unshakable. In fact, the entire OT revolves around god snapping his fingers to get something miraculous happen. AH, the famous "God could just change the rules" argument that completely removes it from anything even remotely relevant to observation or science. If the fundies are forced to throw the "goddunit" argument out the window, there's nothing else they can say about it.
God could indeed have done so, but then by that reasoning, God could have created the world 5 minutes ago, implanting false memories in all of us, which makes the Bible an outright lie.
I'm not trying to disprove this reasoning, but it is kinda pointless to put it here. Actually, I don't see a strong connection between the "goddunit" argument and the postulate that you just presented.
So exactly HOW does this argument of God wildly manipulating everything around us actually help your argument of the Bible being literally correct? If God completely counteracts basic natural laws, by should God not also have wildly counteracted everything else, including something as basic as time?
Well, I get the impression from the OT that god is bounded by the linearness of time just like we are.
By your argument, the event, and indeed all the events of the Bible might never have happened because God just made everything up and claim that we actually had a past in our actual 5 minutes of existence.
But that defeats the purpose of all the so-called moral teachings of the bible, though.
For arguments NOT to descend into nonsense, we do need some parameters such as what we can see, feel, touch, smell and otherwise sense is actually there, that our entire existence is not a mythical creation in our mind by God.
You are trying to impose the scientific method onto the fundies' method. Good luck getting your point across.
Now, we can go forever on the philosophical issue of whether what we see or feel actually exists, which is a rather old issue, going all the way back to Plato's cave and other nonsense.
Thank goodness some people are not coherent enough to make any argument on the issue.
But in the REAL world, if you suddenly stop a spinning ball with a surface circular velocity of many thousand mph, then the shear-forces will cause significant shift at the surface of that ball. If that ball was the Earth, techtonic plates would shift, G-forces on any non-liquid substance (including humans) would rip these to shreads and so on.
The answer to solve such a problem of rotational momentum is "goddunit".
So once again, how is Joshua's extra day an actual possibility, unless the Bible took certain liberties with facts and events?
I propose a different theory on the matter. Joshua and everyone else at the time were crackpots. Their sense of time was altered by whatever substance they were using... probably angel dust. ****************************************************** The way I see it, "goddunit" is probably the best answer to the question. There is another possibility. Check this explanation for a possible way a planet can stop rotating for a while. Check this explanation on how a planet could start rotating again. Although none of that make any sense to me, it's the next best thing to "goddunit". The Laminator
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Hey gbunty, could you please use the reply button with the red arrow? It makes our lives much better. Thanx.
The Laminator
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
the frog writes:
You seem to have missed that cruical step.
The Laminator
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
I actually have a shirt that has that picture on there.
The Laminator
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Good idea Consider it done.
The Laminator
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
Sorry sfripp, but your post has some of the most bullpoop ideas about physics I have ever seen.
There are only 2 possible ways to cause planet Earth to stop rotating and start rotating again. However, both ways would cause the end of all life on Earth as we know it. The Laminator
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
SoG writes:
This is a pretty bold statement. Therefore, The Bible is still true. It was simply misinterpreted. Could you explain to us how your explanation solves the following problems? (1) At the equator, the velocity of any one point is about a thousand miles per hour. How was it that Joshua didn't fly off into the sky in a parabolic motion? (2) Where the hell did all of the Earth's rotational momentum go? Where the hell did all the kinetic energy go? (3) How come not a single other culture ever recorded such an event? You'd think that a longer-than-24-hour-day would be noticed by everyone around the globe at the time. How come the Chinese never recorded any such event? The Laminator We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
sad2kno writes:
Don't worry about it. My field is physics and biology. I don't know much about bible stuff, history, or geology. This is why you will almost never see me debate in one of these discussions. After someone gave the classic "goddunit" as an answer, I pretty much stopped responding, since I know math and physics not miracles.
i feel rather like a boy who has just picked up a basketball among the NBA's finest. This really is not my area of expertise, but i just wanted to ask a few questions and pose a few ideas. First, the recurring theme of the ultra long day among various cultures, and even that they are around the same time period is very interesting.
Two seperate philosophy/theology professors assured me that the so-called recurring theme of ultra long day among various cultures is a myth. The myth was cooked up by similar themes among myths in other cultures. For example, and I know this is off-topic, but I just want to give an analogy. Why do we find stories about a great flood among just about every culture in the world? Some might say that this is proof of Noah's flood. Others, such as myself, simply see it as a coincidence. Flood has always been a big deal to people's lives. In the old days, a flood in the local region might as well be percieved as the world's been flooded, since people didn't have a clue the world was much bigger than their back yards. Since flood's always been a big deal, you'd find these various versions of some kind of great flood and voila you have Noah's flood. Now, I am only human and I simply don't have time to do much research into this. No, I do not like fishing around the internet and claim that I've done proper research on the matter. However, I am certain that it is very easy to cook up a myth/mystery. All you have to do is leave out certain details, exaggerate on irrelavent things, and add some color to the story. Heck, I can probably cook up a myth that I have magic powers. If people were willing to die for Jim Jones, I don't see why I can't start a cult of my own.
Also, Those who look for errors will always find them (glass half empty), especially on a faith so stoicly founded on freedom of choice.
Idealistically, this is true. However, in reality if something is real it must stand up to the test. There's an old chinese saying: real gold ain't afraid of fire.
Next, Though it is true, and very logical about what many of you have said about the repercussions of the earth stopping its movement, it seems like if god can stop the earth, it isnt much more to maintain the forces of nature.
This is why I tend not to get into one of these debates. I can give you mathematical formulas that prove the impossibility of such an event. However, I can't give you miraculous formulas because I don't know any. I'll tell you what, you get god to give some amputated people back their limbs and I'll start investigating further into the reality of miracles.
The very fact that the sun stopped on account of Joshua when joshua said so is testament to the fact that God is all knowing. It takes the sun's light about 8 hours to hit the earth, or something like that, so god must have stopped the earth before Joshua even new he was going to ask.
According to my handy dandy Webster's New World Dictionary, fact is "a thing that has actually happened or that is really true; thing that has been or is... the state of things as they are; reality; actuality; truth... some ththing said to have ocrcurred or supposed to be true..." So, would you mind establishing the event as "fact" first before refering to it as "fact"? Oh yeah, light only takes about 8 minutes to get here from the sun, not 8 hours.
I still haven't read the text of the argument, and everything else, but this forum seemed very interesting, i just had to jump in.
I am also glad that you decided to jump in. I was hoping for some fresh meat... just joking. Welcome!
please let me know what you all are thinking (im sure you wont hesitate to give me a debate-beating )
I'm sure there are some here who would like to tear you to shreds. Be assured that I'm not one of them. All I want to do is grab your throa... I mean shake your hand. The Laminator We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
the rat writes: What if time was stopped? Huh? The Laminator We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!
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coffee_addict Member (Idle past 508 days) Posts: 3645 From: Indianapolis, IN Joined: |
the rat writes:
Actually, I don't. In fact, I'd prefer people use this answer rather than coming up with pseudo-scientific stuff to try to explain it. I don't understand the problem youhave with this answer. Joshua asked God, and Goddunit. Wouldn't you expect that of God too? The Laminator We are the bog. Resistance is voltage over current.
For goodness's sake, please vote Democrat this November!
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