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Author | Topic: My overall view from this boards. | |||||||||||||||||||
derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
Very astute observations.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tranquility Base:
[B] We are simply prepared to tell you the common sense reasons why we beleive in creation and why 99% of scientific findings have an immediate creationist interpretation. [/QUOTE] Then perhaps you would care to start doing this? You can start, for example, by providing the "common sense reasons" that we should believe that a 'creator' would put the observed patterns of shared mutation in organisms. Not the same genes. The same exact mutations. I would love to hear the 'creationist interpretation' of that. You can look here: http://www2.norwich.edu/spage/alignmentgam.htm for example, and provide a creationist 'interpretation' of what you see. Of course, there are locial interpretations, and illogical ones.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
Ahh - there you are TB. You must have missed this:
*********************************************************** We are simply prepared to tell you the common sense reasons why we beleive in creation and why 99% of scientific findings have an immediate creationist interpretation. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Then perhaps you would care to start doing this? You can start, for example, by providing the "common sense reasons" that we should believe that a 'creator' would put the observed patterns of shared mutation in organisms. Not the same genes. The same exact mutations. I would love to hear the 'creationist interpretation' of that. You can look here: http://www2.norwich.edu/spage/alignmentgam.htm for example, and provide a creationist 'interpretation' of what you see. Of course, there are locial interpretations, and illogical ones.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Matt:
[B]Originally posted by SLPx: quote: Are you sure they are mutations? How can you tell if you didn't originally see those strands as they were begotten? Perhaps they were originally unmutated strands that were later subjected to excessive ultraviolet radiation and were both likely changed in similar manners. I can do the same thing with 2 identically programmed EEPROM chips and come out with similar observed (mutated) data by subjecting them to ultraviolet light for a set period of time. [/quote] It is a shame that computer chips are nothing at all like DNA. I have often wondered, perhaps you can answer: Why is it that computer geeks always seem to think that everything in the world works just their little computer chip does? Well, anyway, maybe YOU can go here: http://www2.norwich.edu/spage/alignmentgam.htm And see if real life data is just like your little chips.quote: Yes, obviously. Perhaps you can provide some documentation demonstrating that this applies to DNA.quote: I see you think you have a 'solution.' However, I also see that as is typical for non-biology oriented folks, you are going about it in a very simplistic manner. The problem is, you are forgetting/did not know that mutations happen. And in reproducing organisms, these mutations can get passed on. As this occurs, these passed-on mutations start forming patterns (see the link I provided). Only when one ignores the data and its implications can one produce the 'solution' you do.quote: See above. And the support for the validity of the argument? One of several: Science 1991 Oct 25;254(5031):554-8Gene trees and the origins of inbred strains of mice. Atchley WR, Fitch WM. Department of Genetics, North Carolina State University, Raleigh 27695. Extensive data on genetic divergence among 24 inbred strains of mice provide an opportunity to examine the concordance of gene trees and species trees, especially whether structured subsamples of loci give congruent estimates of phylogenetic relationships. Phylogenetic analyses of 144 separate loci reproduce almost exactly the known genealogical relationships among these 24 strains. Partitioning these loci into structured subsets representing loci coding for proteins, the immune system and endogenous viruses give incongruent phylogenetic results. The gene tree based on protein loci provides an accurate picture of the genealogical relationships among strains; however, gene trees based upon immune and viral data show significant deviations from known genealogical affinities.
quote: That much was clear.quote: I doubt you are any sort of 'scientist'. A troll, if anything. This shopworn simpleton's view of what science is something of a joke. PROVEN? One thing I can prove - computer scientists have little reason for engaging in discussions of anything other than computer science... [This message has been edited by Matt, 09-07-2002][/B][/QUOTE]
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
Hi Matt. I just noticed that you are form Grand Rapids. I lived there for about 3 years.
You have a subscription to the "Something Better News", right?
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Can Vet J 2002 Jul;43(7):556-9Darwinian medicine: applications of evolutionary biology for veterinarians. LeGrand EK, Brown CC. Toxicology/Pathology, Johnson & Johnson Pharmaceutical Research & Development, L.L.C., 1000 Rt. 202, Room B-305, Raritan, New Jersey 08869, USA. *****************************************************************Prog Neuropsychopharmacol Biol Psychiatry 2002 Jan;26(1):1-19 Evolutionary psychiatry. Adaptationist and nonadaptationist conceptualizations. Dubrovsky B. McGill University, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. bdubro@po-box.mcgill.ca "Darwin's theory of evolution, and in particular one of its mechanisms, natural selection, is being used as the explanatory cornerstone of many unsolved problems in human biology and human affairs."**************************************************************** Q Rev Biol 2001 Dec;76(4):417-32 Evolution in health and disease: work in progress. Stearns SC, Ebert D. Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Yale University New Haven, Connecticut 06520-8106, USA. stephen.stearns@yale.edu "This article surveys progress in Darwinian medicine since 1991. Evolutionary thinking has been providing an increasing flow of fresh ideas into medical science, ideas that would not be suggested by other perspectives. "**************************************************************** Well, that is just three. Searching PubMed (you know all about Pubmed, right?) for "Darwinian medicine" got 80 hits. Changing the search parameters would probably yield even more.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Hugh? Hugh who?
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Fiunny - that is not what you wrote.quote: What is the mechanism behind in-kind variation? Can you PROVE that this has occurred?quote: Have YOU ever seen an ocelot spring from some mythological original cat-kind? quote: Indeed...
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Of course, you KNOW that is not what I was talking about, don't you? Please explain how this applies to, say, all extant felines springing forth from the original cat-kind in just a few thousand years.Oh - what about the rest of my cut-and-pasted message?
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Relevance? I am still waiting for a creationist explanation for the data patters seen here: http://www2.norwich.edu/spage/alignmentgam.htm
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Please go to the link that I have provided. It is an alignment of DNA sequences for primates that extends above the level of the Family. Please tell us what the criteria are that you would use to tell at what point descent stopped - or started, I guess. Also, please provide some evidence that God created introns.
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
The selective responses to posts are intriguing....
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derwood Member (Idle past 1907 days) Posts: 1457 Joined: |
quote: Not at all. quote: There are no pseudogenes at the link. quote: 18 more times.quote: Creation scientists do. But they use arbitrary 'barriers.'quote: Often accompanied by uncanny support for common descent, as you admit...quote: Your personal criterion. I say that we need to use synapomorphic sequence.quote: But that is not what you said. You said flat out that God created them I suggest that you temper such claims in the future with a disclaimer.
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