Jesus's Prophecy Of His Gospel

The problem is I believe God wants you to have faith so you wont find prophecies which you are looking for that I know of. Once you have faith in GOD he shows you things which show you that God does exists.No faith no way you will ever really know he is there, you can debate all day long with no faith, you wont find anything.-Quiz

Hey Quiz
It is obvious that you shall never enter into proper debate since by your last post we can see that your mind is closed first curious second.That is okay you are allowed your beliefs however there is no chance for saerching through both sides of the issue if can't hold your assumptions up to critique.

Ahhh, I see, so it isn't on your list of authoritative, arrogant assertions of unproven principles that you regale these boards with?Dogmatically explaining and interpreting is all you have done so far. If you actually sat down and tried to understand evolution or even how science works I'd be amazed.

Hi,This is actually a good angle to look at.Imagine if these fundamentalists approached evolution and/or history/archaeology for even a few hours with the same vigour that they approach the bible with, I am willing ot bet that these ancient myths would soon be gathering dust on the fiction shelf of the local library.Brian.

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No faith no way you will ever really know he is there, you can debate all day long with no faith, you wont find anything.

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This is false and contrary to scripture. To the fundie Bibicalist, faith is not blind, as you are implying by your statement. The Heavens Gate folks from wealthy town, Rancho Santa Fe, Ca, all intelligent ordinary people who took their own lives simultaneously had very deep/powerful faith that somehow they were to link up to the Haley Comet which came through a few years ago. What was their faith based on? What they heard. What did they hear? unsubstantiated opinion of one man, who did nothing supernatural or provide ample evidence that what they were going to do would effect the desired objective. They died in their faith in their youth prime of their lives sensless death.In Romans 10:17 we read, "So belief (faith) comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." What were the words of Christ? That he was the son of God and he proved it by visible miracles, including the raising of the dead and spoken prophecy fulfilled as was predicted by the OT prophets centuries previous. Islamic suicide murderers, like the Heaven's Gaters, were inspired and taught by one man who performed no miracles, cited no fulfilled prophecies and who violated his own law in the religion of Islam. This is the fastest growing religion in the world today, including in the US where these devouts have crippled our economy, murdered thousands, destroyed the two towers of commerce of our nation and heavily damaged our Pentagon. Yet there is more support in this forum and elswhere in academia in America for this Mideastern religion than there is for Biblical Christianity from which our freedom heritage and blessings came. The Bible is being undermined, hated and attacked in America since the hippy sixties.------------------
The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz
An eternal creator is as logical as an eternal universe which would be illogical without an eternal creator. buz[This message has been edited by buzsaw, 10-25-2003]

Yes, If only they could shift that vigour toward a true pursuit of knowledge as long as they wouldn't be dogmatic about it as well, but questioning and searching. Being dogmatic about findings in science is just as bad. Instead they should realize that science can never be absolutely sure about anything but is, or should be, attempting to understand as much as we can, as close to the truth as we can. Any theory can be subject to change because we are constantly updating our knowledge of how the universe works.

Hey Quiz
It is obvious that you shall never enter into proper debate since by your last post we can see that your mind is closed first curious second. Closed only untill somebody can say something which can open my mind. This would take a very strong person to do so as I have a firm ground without faith, as I didn't start with faith but with science and history. When I found that science was incorrect I moved unto history and started looking through the religons and then I found many which only one had good ground.
That is okay you are allowed your beliefs however there is no chance for saerching through both sides of the issue if can't hold your assumptions up to critique. If the critique has something to say that is worth my time I will talk, as you have seen I have written much and responded much. I would say the geneaology debate is at a close because of my information, as the information they had before was all assumptions

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-Quiz

This is false and contrary to scripture. To the fundie Bibicalist, faith is not blind, as you are implying by your statement. The Heavens Gate folks from wealthy town, Rancho Santa Fe, Ca, all intelligent ordinary people who took their own lives simultaneously had very deep/powerful faith that somehow they were to link up to the Haley Comet which came through a few years ago. What was their faith based on? What they heard. What did they hear? unsubstantiated opinion of one man, who did nothing supernatural or provide ample evidence that what they were going to do would effect the desired objective. They died in their faith in their youth prime of their lives sensless death.In Romans 10:17 we read, "So belief (faith) comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ." What were the words of Christ? That he was the son of God and he proved it by visible miracles, including the raising of the dead and spoken prophecy fulfilled as was predicted by the OT prophets centuries previous. Islamic suicide murderers, like the Heaven's Gaters, were inspired and taught by one man who performed no miracles, cited no fulfilled prophecies and who violated his own law in the religion of Islam. This is the fastest growing religion in the world today, including in the US where these devouts have crippled our economy, murdered thousands, destroyed the two towers of commerce of our nation and heavily damaged our Pentagon. Yet there is more support in this forum and elswhere in academia in America for this Mideastern religion than there is for Biblical Christianity from which our freedom heritage and blessings came. The Bible is being undermined, hated and attacked in America since the hippy sixties. You are missing my point as I am speaking to the athiest, an athiest opens the bible and finds the word generation he then moves to the conclusion that it is wrong because the word generation in all forms of english means 30-50 years for example, so he says ok this is wrong and closes the biblica. If he had any faith at all he would say hmmmm let me see what I can find to show that this is not just one generation or that this is not talking about their generation. I dont want to open this topic but this is my example

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-Quiz

It would be a good idea not to generalise so much. Some athiests have studied with world famous Christian authors at some of the world's leading universities and have a very good understanding of the Bible, and sometimes it is this good understanding of the Bible that reinforces their atheism.Also, it doesn't take faith to dig deeper into the meaning of certain words, it only takes an enquiring mind.Brian.

It would be a good idea not to generalise so much. Some athiests have studied with world famous Christian authors at some of the world's leading universities and have a very good understanding of the Bible, and sometimes it is this good understanding of the Bible that reinforces their atheism.Also, it doesn't take faith to dig deeper into the meaning of certain words, it only takes an enquiring mind.Brian. I understand your point there it makes alot of since I agree because at one time I found error in the bible but soon I found things by faith which help correct my understanding which removed the error. I would not say that any scholler has any good knowledge of the bible based of just that fact (because some schollers are not believers causing them to bring out the false understanding)because as I have stated it is biblical that the apostasy happend and is still happening today. (Because of translation and error in translation it caused or helped the falling away.)

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-Quiz

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Apparently a theist looks at who is writing and then moves on to the conclusion he is wrong. I already said the generation thing is not being treated as an issue.The question to buz, and if you want to address it please do, is...In a world filled with supernatural prophets, and many Gods, what properties do you use to judge false prophecy from true prophecy?I have given a couple of my distinguishing properties and believe they must be held as much for one prophet as to another.If faith is the only property then they are all equally right or all equally wrong.------------------
holmes

Oh no, Quiz... don't start denoting quotes with color like Joralex Quote blocks are designed for quotes. It makes it confusing when different people choose their own methods to do quotes.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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Islamic suicide murderers, like the Heaven's Gaters, were inspired and taught by one man who performed no miracles, cited no fulfilled prophecies and who violated his own law in the religion of Islam.

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You should know very well that miracles do happen in the Quran, but that Mohammed doesn't take credit for them - he only grants credit to Allah. Islam is closer to monotheism than Christianity (still not completely there, though!); individual humans don't have power.------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

Hi Quiz,

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Originally posted by Quiz

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No faith no way you will ever really know he is there, you can debate all day long with no faith, you wont find anything.

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Originally posted by buzsaw

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This is false and contrary to scripture.

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Glad we can agree on something, buzsaw.

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Originally posted by Quiz

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. . . at one time I found error in the bible but soon I found things by faith which help correct my understanding which removed the error. I would not say that any scholler has any good knowledge of the bible based of just that fact (because some schollers are not believers causing them to bring out the false understanding)...

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Like it or not, you have but one credible means of demonstrating that your understanding of any given biblical passage is correct. For you, along with everyone else, that credible means is the critical examination of biblical linguistics, culture and history.You may, if you wish, claim that you were led to the correct understanding by faith. However, if you wish to make a credible demonstration to others that your understanding is correct, faith cannot be used as supporting argument.Amlodhi

Like it or not, you have but one credible means of demonstrating that your understanding of any given biblical passage is correct. For you, along with everyone else, that credible means is the critical examination of biblical linguistics, culture and history.You may, if you wish, claim that you were led to the correct understanding by faith. However, if you wish to make a credible demonstration to others that your understanding is correct, faith cannot be used as supporting argument.Amlodhi I just want to say for the record I was athiest at one point in my life and I had no faith, history led me to christ before mormonism it was catholic and before that it was baptist and then luthern I have been through the ropes and seen the other faiths, they are all wrong. Also know that I went through science first. I still believe science has a good foundation as it is the physical understanding of how things happen and work and I give it that much. I even agree with a form of evolution, not micro-evolution only macro-evolution. I believe what is behind macro-evolution is God, I dont believe he created things from nothing eather I believe he created things as we do.

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-Quiz

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P.S. I wont use my faith anylonger but from now on I will bring scriptural proof and debate this way. Thanks for your patiants.