The location of the Tree of Life

But he knew he would No, sorry, I do not know a human that can speak the universe into existance. But I did notice that we are created in his image, so that would explain alot of what God does, to be similar to how we handle things in this demesion. We need to look no farther than ourselves to understand God. Or we just don't get it, or understand how he wants us to live, so this is how it appears to you. It's real tough to love everyone, in the same mannor you love yourself. I didn't know God had a gender, even though he is refered to as a he. Do we even have gender when we go to heaven? I think mussulms are promised virgins in heaven? Or is it Virginians ? They better hope its the first one. Or interpretations that those paricular people need to understand God. Why even judge it for them? You can judge it for yourself though. Thats probable why Jesus said don't judge, it would get in the way of love. I guess there is some truth hiding in that statement. It is probably why I hate the word religion. No matter how hard my church tries to be "not religious" it happens anyway. This is the main reason why we should not search religion to find God. Well I guess this would be the same as gaps in evolution. We can just do as the evolutionists do, and throw in millions of years to the concocktion, and say, no, we don't have all the answers. But this is not acceptable, it all must make sense right? Was Adam and Eve the only ones capable of eating from the tree of life at that time? Not like he didn't warn us. A perfect example of man blaming God again.

No, man's interpretation of his word, and how he tries to carry it out. I think that is incorrect.

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Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

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Who's the us that the bible refers to?
I think there was humans outside the garden.Genisis 4 says:
15 But the LORD said to him, "Not so ; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16 So Cain went out from the LORD's presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.17 Cain lay with his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch. 18 To Enoch was born Irad, and Irad was the father of Mehujael, and Mehujael was the father of Methushael, and Methushael was the father of Lamech.Where did cains wife come from?
Why did he need a mark on him so no-one would kill him?
Who else was there?The serpent sounded like he had some free will also, when he convinced Eve to eat the fruit.Why does Genesis have to be absolute? Can't we just learn from the morals? Isn't that where we find the word of God, in the morals of the story? What part? Where he told them not to do something, and they did?
Wasn't everyone in the time of Noah living in sin, against the way God intended us to live. Didn't he warn them. Noah had 100 years or so to build the ark, he knew, he told others. They were all banging on the door, after the Lord shut it, but it was too late. Noah was the only righteous man. The only one living God's way. So there was a God way, and a wrong way.First warning:

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The Flood
1 When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years."

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That should have told them something was up, but no!

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12 God saw how corrupt the earth had become, for all the people on earth had corrupted their ways.

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The word corrupted in that verse indicates that it was once good. There was a good way that became corrupted, and no longer worthy of life, according to God. Only one walked with God, Noah.I just caught something else too. We now know where the water came from:
Genesis 8:2
Now the springs of the deep and the floodgates of the heavens had been closed,God turned off the big faucet in the sky, lol.*edited to fix a bad bracket*This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 06-08-2005 05:41 PM

I would say the inconsistency is in us, not him. The only thing here that is inconsistent is our free will, and what we choose. That is why Jesus had to come.Is it God's fault for creating us, yes. Are we not happy that we exist? Some of us are. This something that I do not understand yet. What do you mean by that? We are saved by faith. If we have faith, then we should be doing his works, otherwise we are just blowing smoke.Predestination? We can't seem to prove that one yet. I don't know about you, but I feel I have power over my decisions. I could be wrong though.
I can't see how we would ever do things against our own sinful will, so we could please God. It doesn't seem to fit into the pre-determined scheme of things. I also can't see how this behavior would come to be in us, through evolution. What purpose would it serve for our survival? How did it come about through mutations and chance?Also when you stop sinning long enough, and seek God, there is something beautiful that happens, and you start to see what we are created for. It is then that God speaks to you in your heart, and you know. Even still we remain sinful in our nature, which sucks. Because they were just trying to follow Christ. Look at Paul’s frustration in Romans. Look at my frustration in the last paragraph I wrote. But he always ends those frustrations with the line, "thanks be to Jesus Christ, by whom we are saved"Paul and James were just humans like us. As a matter of facts the bible says that we would do greater works than them. Who are we trying to follow here? Looking for God in Paul and James is no smarter than looking for God in a church. I think we should only be trying to follow what Jesus says, then the rest of it will start to make sense.Its real simple: Love God with your all, and love others as you love yourself.
Well the words are simple, its acting it out that’s tough. I agree. But I have decided to not let my ignorance of how things were back then to stop me from loving the God of the NT. I see all the things that science discovers. There were torture chambers, and mass murders, and things were in such a way, that we could not even begin to understand how it was. God made those OT laws to address the people of the day. But then there was a time for a change, and that’s when Jesus came. His laws are 2000 years old now, and are still picture perfect in my mind. People on greenpeace, and such are probably closer to living how God wants us to live, except they may or may not be doing it in God's name. Which may be something that they are missing out on. I feel believing in God would double their experience and the mission they are on. Same thing goes for everyone.
Doing good for the sake of good, still leaves you half empty.
When you do good for the sake of God, through Jesus, you are fulfilled.
Again the biggest problem with God, is peoples mis-understanding of him. Sorry typo, I never tried to spell that word before. Spelling is not my strong point. But its getting better, since coming to this forum. That was a pretty funny typo though I don't know, but isn't the story so general that we shouldn't look so deeply into the specifics of it, but just try to understand its moral? He told them once not to touch it, and they did. If he forces them not to touch it, then he is removing free will. So now if they try to touch it, they will get hammered by a flaming whatever.It would seem this lesson still applies today. No matter how hard we try to become like God, we won't. People make riches on the earth, and you know how much they leave behind when they die? All of it.*edited to fix about 8 typo's, not doing good this morning*This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 06-09-2005 08:56 AM

I mentioned it because of this quote: I was pointing out that there were more who had free will. Perhaps the angels, and the devil. God says us.That has nothing to do with people outside the garden, that is separate. I would agree with that, it doesn't change who God is, or how he designed us to live. It really doesn't matter, and I believe in creation. How it happened is not that important to me, but it sure is interesting. I didn't find God through believing in creation or evolution.

I guess we can relate to that, since we were created in his image.Do we even know who wrote Genisis? Was it a dream, a vision. How did it survive the flood, in Noah's mind?How can it possibly be a literal translation of what happened? Especially since there are so many versions of it today. Is that the devil trying to confuse us?But I believe in the moral of the story which is where I find God's word. The moral of the story is not God is a cooky mind changer, but that we keep trying to be like him, but we can't.

How so? There are so many versions of that story, from so many bibles, which is the correct absolute one? I disagree with that statement, and it is not how you find God, by thinking that Genesis is absolute. The moral is however. Don't eat the fruit. Are you trying to say that people didn't know that they should not be living their lives in evil? Because it wasn't cleary spelled out in Genesis?

That happens all the time, but does not stop God's word from reaching us through the bible. If you are interpreting the bible wrong, and missing the moral of the story for which it was written, things can appear that way also. Can you show me where the NT says we are saved by works? I dont really accept that. It doesn't explain good and bad either. That’s your choice, and I am happy for your choice. It is where you need to be. It doesn't mean there is or is not a God. My belief doesn't prove a thing either.But it sounds like you were in a prison, and then set free. Probably because in your heart you knew it wasn't God, whatever it was that was being taught to you. You see, God puts his laws on the minds and hearts of everyone. When things go against his law, you automatically know it. This does not stop people from choosing good or bad. We as humans can be deceived into thinking that one or the other is better for us. But sooner or later the truth comes through. I feel you knew what it was that you were exposed to wasn't truth, so you set yourself free. I feel God created you with a purpose, and that purpose was not being meet, so you had to break free. Now you want to accomplish that purpose, without exploiting others (good stuff). It would be so much better if you knew God, and did it for his glory. God knows what he created you for, and when you come in line with that purpose, and do it for him, there is true fulfillment.
This is just my opinion, I mean it in a good way. I don't want to offend you. Lol. so you don't have an explanation either. Don't worry, neither do I. Well, I wouldn't blame them for anything either. Paul constantly humbles himself, and says how is not worthy. At one point I tried to be "sin-free" and I too realized how hard it is, and I do feel not-worthy, but I don't feel any less of myself. I am who I am, and that’s the way God made me. I will just go through life and learn along the way trying my best.
Their writings are an inspiration and they were led by the Holy Spirit. I feel as though I am led by the Spirit, and have close encounters with the Spirit all the time(we all have the Spirit inside of us). That led me to a better understanding of what they wrote, where as before I had that experience, it didn't make much sense. It is the best writing we have to help guide us to the Holy Spirit, and a personal relationship with Jesus. Until you understand what the Holy Spirit is in its fullness, then I wouldn't give up on it yet. Jesus promised us the Holy Spirit, and he delivers.
It's not easy for them to describe it to us, and it is not easy for me to describe it to you. I think that is why you must seek it yourself. Sure, I understand that perfectly. I always have done good for good, and one time I did it for Jesus, but I really didn't know him at the time, and I felt angry about doing it, because none of it made any sense. I used to get angry just to sit in a church.
But now after experiencing the Holy Spirit, things are different. My understanding of it (life and God), through the wisdom and knowledge that the Holy Spirit gives me, has now opened my eyes to a different way of thinking. The verse in John explains it well:
John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."The Holy Spirit is truth, the truth lives inside you, that is why you knew what you were experiencing was a lie. Or that’s what I think. Thank you. But there is a lesson to be learned here. Here's how I see it. Jesus constantly tells us how very few people will get into heaven. Why this is, is beyond my judgment. But it is clear that if a religion or a group of people are to take a literal translation, and miss the moral of the story, then what purpose does it serve? Then for them to judge you, and tell you, that your not going to heaven because you don't believe in it, is a bunch of crap.
Judge not, or be judged
Love others like yourself
on and on.....
So we are going to sit here and judge that story, or the people who wrote it, or God himself? I don't think we can ever find God that way, and that makes us no better than some of bad people in the OT
We can sit and pick apart every bible verse, verse by verse, the bible allows you to do that. That is the beauty of the bible, you can go back and read it, and it will mean something different every time. Most of the time, when seeking God, the bible will tell you exactly what you need to know. The bible even picks itself apart:Ecclesiastes 1
Everything Is Meaningless
1 The words of the Teacher, son of David, king in Jerusalem:2 "Meaningless! Meaningless!"
says the Teacher.
"Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless."3 What does man gain from all his labor
at which he toils under the sun?4 Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever.5 The sun rises and the sun sets,
and hurries back to where it rises.6 The wind blows to the south
and turns to the north;
round and round it goes,
ever returning on its course.7 All streams flow into the sea,
yet the sea is never full.
To the place the streams come from,
there they return again.8 All things are wearisome,
more than one can say.
The eye never has enough of seeing,
nor the ear its fill of hearing.9 What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.10 Is there anything of which one can say,
"Look! This is something new"?
It was here already, long ago;
it was here before our time.11 There is no remembrance of men of old,
and even those who are yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow.

It can be said that they did die that day, they died a spiritual death, for which all of mankind still pays for. Its funny how well that story fits into life. Not only are our spirits dead when we are born, but we pay for the sins of our fathers. But he did warn them. Plus does the story have to include every minute detail, or does only need to contain enough information for us to understand its moral? I believe the bible omits several details along the way. It would have to be 1000 times larger for it to have all the details, but that is not what the book is for. The story wasn't written for you not to believe in God, but so that you may believe in God, and find his word. That is the way you see it, at this point in time.

Awesome, the bible is so versatile. No other book can be taken so many ways, that alone is a testimony to its greatness. Thats my point. But I do believe that it's moral is preserved. 66 books to be exact. Bibliolatry I am not guilty of. I agree with you. What an unbelievable story! There are so many morals in that story, that still relate to today. It was so long ago, and difficult for us to understand. Again a lot of detail is left out, but a basic story line is there, so that we can get a glimpse of what went on. It's too long to discuss here, but deserves its own thread. But it shows how to treat women (if anyone says that we are supposed to rape women, I will reach through my computer, and choke them), screw up of man, another mans faithfulness to God, battle between tribes. Its a love story, and story of battle, and a story of faithfulness to God, and God's forgiveness to man. We are gods, with a little "g". He is the Lord of lords, King of kings. We are rulers of the earth, and have high places in heaven waiting for us. Even the Angels will serve us.

Your assuming that God didn't already know. Your assuming he changed his mind, when in actuallity, he may have did it that way on purpose. Your also assuming you know what God is up to, and you know exactly what those words in Genisis means.I am not assuming anything. I am expressing what I think it might mean. They very well could have died a spiritual death that day.We can be dead spiritually, here are some references:
1 Timothy 5
6But the widow who lives for pleasure is dead even while she lives.2 Peter 1
19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.Luke 1:79
79to shine on those living in darkness
and in the shadow of death,
to guide our feet into the path of peace."John 5:24-26
24"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life. 25 I tell you the truth, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son to have life in himself.Jesus was granted life, because he was dead, without it, as it is for us, as Adam and Eve died that day, a spiritual death, just like God said they would. Telling someone they will die, would pretty much mean to me that there would be no more garden (even if they didn't understand the kind of death God was talking about). Why does such a smart person such as yourself need to be explained this, and why would you require a verse with those exact words. Does it mean there is no God, because there is no bible verse explaining this to you?I would also say that the death God speaks of is mans ability to die, not that he would be dead the second he ate it. Sin brings about death, and we die, even after suffering through life here on earth.Or it's a combination of the 2 thoughts.
Spiritual death, and physical death.edit to add something I can't answer that for you. You have to find it yourself, in your own way, that satisfies you. A way that answers your questions. No-one should be trying to "make" you believe in God, but tell you things you might need to know, to make a more educated decsion whether God exists for you or not.If someone explains Genesis to you, who does not know God, or understand him, or is not led by the Holy Spirit, or their intension is to prove to you that there is no God, then it will be tougher for you to find the truth. "If God exists".The bible can mean a multitude of things, and if it is explained wrong to you over the course of years, it will take double that to reverse it, to find the truth."If there is a devil" then this is where he wants you to be, in a state of confusion. Then its status quo, and you are free to move about the cabin.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 06-10-2005 08:13 PM

Um no it doesn't, and your not doing a very good job of taking the bible literally. Um, have you been reading what I have been saying, or are you just blowing smoke at me because I love God? Maybe if you discover your spiritual life, you will understand.Don't you get it, they died a spiritual death, and they could get it back by eating from the tree of life, spiritual life. Or maybe even immortal life, human on earth. It had to be guarded. It's a metaphore. Just like Jesus's death, was a metaphore that if we believe in him, we can have the fruit from the tree of life, and live. Read the bible, there are many references to what I am talking about. You have to start thinking spiritually, its a spiritual book, not a do it yourself fix it guide for your 74 pinto. Both. It is not necessary to believe in God to understand the story, or is it needed to find God, but it may help some people find God.
I thought my answer was clear in telling you, that I do not know what it takes for you to believe in God, your journey is your own.

Your own......personal......Jesus......Does God even exist in a demension where there is time?

According to Genesis, what changed about them that day, Adam and Eve? I don't know for sure, but maybe it was to show Adam and Eve, that there is life, and the only way to life is through God. Maybe it was put there, because God knew what they were going to do? I tend to look at it as symbolism and look at the morals of the story anyway. I do not believe in Genesis literally, but don't say that it is not trure either. That is not how I found God anyway, looking in Genesis. Me persoanlly, I didn't understand Genesis that much at all, until I found God for myself. But that's me. I believe I did. People like you love to take a piece of the bible, out of its context and tear it apart. To understand the bible, you need to know a good portion of it, and what is meant by it. From your words that you have displayed, I do not get that feeling from you. You need all the pieces of the puzzle to see the big picture. It's like taking only a portion of Einsteins theory, and saying E= , Thats not correct, it doesn't make sense, so it the rest of the equation must be wrong.You refuse to believe that they died a spiritual death that day, and say it is off topic, but I say its not. It has everything to do with who we are, and why we are dead, spiritually.And please don't tell me that you haven't said something to this effect "well the original language of the bible is gone, and there is so many translations, how could we possibly know what it means, or what the original authors meant when they wrote it" Tell me you never said that. I suppose I said that wrong, and you took it wrong. So I apologize. I am not here to judge your spiritual life, I am sorry.

Not entirely, because a day to God is like a thousand years. So what is time to God? First three words of the bible: "In the begining" which means there was a begining, that was started by God, he created time for us to exist in. He was there before time. It's more than idle speculation.Unless God has a time machine, and started a separate time demension just for us, and he lives in his own time.

Now if we are going to discuss this, and you are going to quote bible verses only when it suites you, then summarize into your own words when you want, then we have a problem. It's the bible according Ringo, nothing more.
But even according to your description, something did indeed change. You say they saw the world more realistically. I won't even ask you how you came up with that according to bible verses. But realistically is a relative term, according to what happened to them.
They hid, and were embarrassed, all of a sudden. Their spirit died, it was a complete change, and God pointed that out to them (their change), and then all of mankind had to pay for what they did.
There was a heck of a lot that changed that day my friend, by moral, and literally.So don't patronize us with that answer. Then this is where we disagree. But I will say that I could be wrong, I am not set in exactly what it means.But you say it is clear that physical death was meant. I say it is not clear, because they didn't actually die. I don't really think that the writer of that story would leave an explanation for that out. I think whoever wrote it would have been smart enough to catch that discrepancy.