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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the Word of God?
nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 127 of 260 (2367)
01-17-2002 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by redstang281
01-16-2002 8:37 AM


[QUOTE][B] There are no contradictions in the Bible. [/QUOTE]
Um, yes there are.
Here is one that no Biblical literalist has been able to explain to me in the slightest.
In Matthew, Mark and Luke, the last supper is a Passover meal, and Jesus then goes on to be crucified after Passover.
Matthew: Chapter 26
Mark: Chapter 14
Luke: Chapter 22
(Also interesting is that, for the first time in the gospels, "Satan" is said to "enter Judas", seemingly to explain why he would betray Jesus. Funny that Satan isn't mentioned in Matthew or Mark at all.)
In John, however, Jesus is crucified before passover: Chapter 19
14: Now it was the day of Preparation of the Passover; it was about the sixth hour. He said to the Jews, "Behold your King!"
15: They cried out, "Away with him, away with him, crucify him!" Pilate said to them, "Shall I crucify your King?" The chief priests answered, "We have no king but Caesar."
16: Then he handed him over to them to be crucified.
17: So they took Jesus, and he went out, bearing his own cross, to the place called the place of a skull, which is called in Hebrew Gol'gotha.
18: There they crucified him, and with him two others, one on either side, and Jesus between them.
31: Since it was the day of Preparation, in order to prevent the bodies from remaining on the cross on the sabbath (for that sabbath was a high day), the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
42: So because of the Jewish day of Preparation, as the tomb was close at hand, they laid Jesus there.
It clearly says that Jesus was crucified on or about the sixth hour of the day beforePassover.
How can Jesus have had a Passover meal in the first three Gospels, and then have been Crucified before Passover in the fourth?
This is certainly contradictory, wouldn't you say?
[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 01-17-2002]
[This message has been edited by Percipient, 01-18-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by redstang281, posted 01-16-2002 8:37 AM redstang281 has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 139 of 260 (3356)
02-03-2002 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by TrueCreation
02-02-2002 12:01 AM


TC, how can you say that the Bible is "correct" when there are so many different versions of it, and it has been translated so many times (often for political reasons rather than theological accuracy), there is no original version, and there have been entire chapters left out it?
Do you care to address how "correct by logic" the contradictory versions of when Christ was said to have been crucified are? I lay out this contradiction in this thread, message #127.
It is quite clear that the Last Supper is a Passover meal in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, and that Christ is crucified after Passover. However, in John, it is stated very clearly that Christ is crucified before Passover.
quote:
". It is also heavily influenced by the cultural bias presiding in the days it was originaly writen."
--You continuouly perceive it as a bias culture, why so?
Everything that has ever been written, except maybe mathematics, is written with a cultural bias, because there is no such thing as a person that isn't influenced by culture.
The cultural bias is made clear when you compare various religious books with each other. For example, the Hebrews were extremely patriarchal in their culture, so their religion and depiction of God reflects much of this bias in favor of males.
Also, slavery was not considered strange or horrible in Biblical times the way it is today, as is obvious from reading the Bible. There is no commandment which states; "Thou shalt not enslave another human", but there is a commandment stating that we should not desire another's cattle, wife, or slave (see what category women are in?). There was no particular cultural bias against the idea of slavery the way there is today.
quote:
"It contains some wisdom which COULD be divinely inspired but it also contains vague interpretations,myths and downright fallacies."
--Unfortunately, I have yet to hear any.
Some fallacies in the Bible:
Bats are birds
Rabbits chew their cud
Something called the "firmament" is where the stars have been "set into" and also what separates the "higher waters from the lower waters". So, TC, where are these "higher waters" that are above the firmament, and why haven't our spacecraft crashed into the firmament?
A talking serpent, that eventually is condemned to eating dust. (except that snakes do not eat dust.)
Noah sent out a dove to find dry land after the flood, and it brings back an olive branch. How did this olive tree live through the flood if the Bible says that everything that wasn't on board the ark perished?
Here is more:
Jesus falsely prophesies that the high priest would see his second coming. Mt.26:64, Mk.14:62.
Jesus falsely prophesies that the end of the world will come within his listeners' lifetimes. Mk.9:1, 13:30
67.Jesus said that his true followers will routinely perform the following tricks: 1) cast out devils, 2)speak in tongues, 3) take up serpents, 4) drink poisons without harm, and 5) cure the sick by touching them. Mk.16:17-18
Jesus falsely predicts that some of his listeners would live to see him return and establish the kingdom of God.Lk.9:27
Jesus says that all that he describes (his return, signs in the sun, moon, and stars, etc.) will occur within thelifetime of his listeners. Lk.21:32
Paul thought that the end was near and that Jesus would return soon after he wrote these words. Phil.4:5
The author of Hebrews believed that he was living in the "last days" (Heb.1:2) and that Jesus would come "in a little while," and would "not tarry." Heb.10:37
Peter wrongly believed that he was living in the "last times" and that "the end of all things is at hand." 1 Pet.1:20,.4:7
John thinks he is living in "the last times." He "knows" this because he sees so many antichrists around. 1 Jn.2:18
John says that the antichrist was already present at the time 1 John was written. 1 Jn.4:3
John believes "the time is at hand," and that the things that he writes about in Revelation will "shortly come to pass." Rev.1:1, 3
Rev.1:7 says that "every eye shall see him," including those who executed him.
Jeremiah (49:33) predicts that humans will never again live in Hazor, but will be replaced by dragons. But people still live there and dragons have never been seen.
In Jer.50:39 and Is.13:19-20 God prophesies that Babylon will never again be inhabited. But it has been inhabited constantly since the prophecy was supposedly made, and is inhabited still today.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by TrueCreation, posted 02-02-2002 12:01 AM TrueCreation has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by TrueCreation, posted 02-05-2002 5:36 PM nator has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2200 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 192 of 260 (3689)
02-07-2002 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by KingPenguin
02-06-2002 12:51 AM


quote:
Originally posted by KingPenguin:
this is where the human factor comes into play, no one ever knows what they'll do or even can do. Im sure some facts and stories are tainted to benefit the author; the movie dogma has some funny theories about that. I am however sure that god's message of salvation of men/mankind does get through. I'll repeat something i said before, whats the point of existence if nothing is gained other than offspring and maybe just maybe a beneficial gene. There is no point for an individual to even bother living if everything they do has no meaning or purpose. If i'm here simply to be a slave to my boss or whatever scientist created us i wouldnt be able to motivate myself to do anything, let alone bring children in the world to face the same inevitable fate and loneliness. i know part of believing is that mankind in general needs to feel that it has a purpose for living and that someone cares for them, and god kindly provides all of this for us. However humans are way to bent on their religion, faith in the father, the son and the holy spirit is what saves your soul from damnation not whatever particular religion your in.
One more thing... a question for those that are not faithful. Whats your motivation for living if you'll cease to exist in every way?

My motivation for living? What kind of question is that?
I love taking in the world with all of my senses. I love interacting with the world. I love figuring things out, thinking about things. I love teaching. I love learning. I love doing.
I love life!
Nobody actually knows if there is life after death, so to speak. One can have faith, but nobody really knows. I live my life as if it matters what I do here and now, not because of fear of eternal retribution or hope of eternal reward. My actions have consequenses here and now, and will have ripple effects for as long as the Earth exists.
------------------
"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply
close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands
of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow-
minded."
-Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by KingPenguin, posted 02-06-2002 12:51 AM KingPenguin has not replied

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