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Author Topic:   Question for Agnostics
mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 9 of 18 (48913)
08-06-2003 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Primordial Egg
08-06-2003 6:12 AM


PE,
Personally, I regard myself as an atheist - someone who does not believe in God, and may very well believe that there is no God, to boot. Now philosophically, if I were to pin myself down, hold a gun to my head (with my spare hand) and force myself to be absolutely honest then I'd concede that I'd probably come under some sort of category of 'agnostic'- it is of course impossible to know that (a) God does not exist, just as its impossible to know whether the real world is really really out there.
But this to me is a disingenous distinction - it has no real meaning. I don't believe that Willy Wonka actually existed but of course I can't be completely certain of it - so would that make me agnostic with respect to Willy Wonka?
I put myself in exactly the same boat. I think the way to rationalise your example is the same way I rationalise the potential existence of God. Until I have evidence that Willy Wonka/God exists, I am under no obligation to accept the existence of said beings.
Where Atheism (as we understand it) differs, is that it says there is no evidence for the existence of Willy Wonka/God, therefore they don't exist. This is essentially an argument from ignorance: if it hasn't been proven to be true, it is false. This is precisely the double standard I wanted to avoid, I can't very well tell creationists they are logically flawed when I am myself. So it seemed to me that I had to make the short pidgeon step from atheist to agnostic. Nothings changed, I still carry on my life as if a God doesn't exist, why shouldn't I? I'm just not guilty of a logical flaw anymore.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Primordial Egg, posted 08-06-2003 6:12 AM Primordial Egg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Primordial Egg, posted 08-06-2003 12:51 PM mark24 has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5225 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 12 of 18 (48949)
08-06-2003 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Primordial Egg
08-06-2003 12:51 PM


PE,
I'm not sure here but does being agnostic in order to maintain logical purity not lead to the inescapable conclusion that you have to be agnostic about absolutely everything?
In a very real sense, yes. If you aren't in possession of contradictory evidence, then don't rule it out.
I have a friend who always accuses me of sitting on the fence as an agnostic, I tend to see it as a sliding scale. I am not 50/50 undecided, I am 99.99% recurring on the side of no God.
if saying that the existence of God is about as likely as the three-headed mongoose king of Neptune, then you're really saying, what you're really communicating here, is that you don't think God exists.
Not at all, & I realise I'm being absolutist about what I've previously written, but I mean it when I say I have no evidential obligation to accept that a God exists. This is different from postively asserting that none exists.
Atheism, as sometimes defined by atheists uses the etymology of the word "a-theist", without God or Gods i.e. a lack of God belief. This is perfectly logically sustainable........If the definitons above hold, can I persuade you to come back into the atheist fold? Go on, you know you want to
That's true, I have no belief in God, & under this definition I am an atheist (satisfied ), but at the end of the day, we're quibbling about definitions. Whatever definition you choose, I'll happily slot into it, as long as it is consistent with, "I have no evidential basis to accept God, but neither can I rule Him/Her/It out, therefore I'll continue as if there isn't one."
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Primordial Egg, posted 08-06-2003 12:51 PM Primordial Egg has not replied

  
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