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Author Topic:   Salvation by faith and works : intellectually ridiculous?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 445 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 125 of 172 (305899)
04-22-2006 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by iano
04-18-2006 6:15 AM


matter of heart
Sorry jano for jumping in here late. I have not read through the thread because my time is limited, but I did want to share with you how I see it, as I ask the same questions to myself. Finding the answers has helped me define my faith. I share with you the same question.
One may be judged simply on our performance in relation to two golden rules given by Jesus:
Since we don't know who will get into heaven, and I think the bible says we will be surprised at who we find there. I think God will judge us based on what we know.
How can you love God, if you don't know who He is?
What if the reason you don't know who He is, is because a priest molested you or something?
Salvation may consist of a more complex route: when a person believes, they receive the Holy Spirit as a guide/assisting power as to how a person should obey Gods laws fully.
I have questioned the Holy Spirit for sometime now, as to why it took so long for me to really feel His power.
But I do realize that the Holy Spirit was always there. Life is always about whether I am following Him or not. Not whether I recognize it or not. I only felt the power of the Holy Spirit 2 years ago, but I never felt like I was ever going to go to Hell.
But I am not an evil person. I can't speak for those who are truely evil at heart, and where they might be going. I have done intentional evil things in my life, but I always felt regret (repentance). I think God was always forgiving me.
I know we should forgive to be forgiven, but I never really carried to many grudges, only a hand full. After feeling the power of the Holy Spirit,I dropped those grudges as well. That's were freedom comes in.
When you know the truth (the Holy Spirit) the truth will set you free.
I no longer had to carry the weight of what those people did to me. I locked myself in my own prison of anger, by not forgiving people.
If not, can anyone explain the mechanisms of (partially) self-dependant salvation which excludes this intellectual insult. Assertion is okay so long as it contributes to completing the mechanism.
There is way to much for me to explain in just one post, but I can narrow it down to it is actually a matter of heart.
Think about how God sees you. Only you and Him now the real you.
Now think about He sees everyone else. We can't understand those relationships, just people cannot know the real us.
Our experiences in life shape us into who we are, and what we say. But there is always the inner sense (liberals call it the greater good) of the Holy Spirit. Following your heart, right and wrong, and feeling bad for what you do is what gets you in heaven. It's strictly between you and God, and we are not to even try and judge it from the outside.
Jesus came to save, not judge.
So then how do we judge evil, good, or someones heart? Isn't it all relative? What one thinks is good, another thinks is evil. Isn't it really about what is in your heart, and what God sees in you?
I once had a vision, it was in church when we all were praying as a group. There was 75 people there. They were all seeking God.
The vision was that we all were stepping into the light, but I could see all the dogma of the world being stripped away from us, and we were all naked spirits. We were in a holding room as we adjusted to our new selves, and as we looked at each other, we all were with the same feeling, and there was now hate, or bad feelings, or predetermined judgements when looking at each other, and we were all glad to be there. We were looking at each other and saying, hey, your naked too! It was like a cleansing right before we stepped in. I could see no-one being sent to hell. There was much love

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by iano, posted 04-18-2006 6:15 AM iano has not replied

  
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