Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,902 Year: 4,159/9,624 Month: 1,030/974 Week: 357/286 Day: 13/65 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Prodigal Metaphor
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 16 of 23 (394159)
04-09-2007 9:38 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by ringo
04-08-2007 5:20 PM


Re: Metaphors for everyday life
Ringo writes:
The prodigal son and his "good" brother were basically the same. They were looking for the wrong kind of reward. They were looking to the future, to their inheritance, instead of appreciating what they had in the present and doing what they should in the present.
IMHO this is the key point that so many Evangelicals miss. The key message of Christianity involves taking the focus off of ourselves and putting it on God. The way we put it on God is to embrace His attributes, (love, justice, mercy etc) and to reject hate, injustice, revenge etc.
The idea of promoting the Christian faith by telling people that they will gain reward in the afterlife only succeeds in putting the focus back on the self. I believe that God desires that all of us embrace love for its own sake and not because of an anticipation of future reward.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 04-08-2007 5:20 PM ringo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by anastasia, posted 04-09-2007 10:20 PM GDR has not replied

  
anastasia
Member (Idle past 5982 days)
Posts: 1857
From: Bucks County, PA
Joined: 11-05-2006


Message 17 of 23 (394165)
04-09-2007 10:20 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by GDR
04-09-2007 9:38 PM


Re: Metaphors for everyday life
The act of contrition says we repent because we dread the loss of heaven and the pains of hell, but most of all because we have offended God. From this perspective, who was better of the brothers?
The prodigal returned not for love of the father, but for fear of the 'hell' he was in. Is there any indication that the good brother stayed at home because of love? He worked for the father...and reaped his reward in the moment. To others he must have appeared faithful to the father. Why was he looking for more than a share in the father's life? Jewels in his crown?
Is it at all significant that at the end of the parable the older son still has his inheritence? The inheritence here is obviously not 'salvation'. It is comething 'extra'. Something he obviously does not need at the moment while living under his father's care. I think that this inheritence is equality. We may squander our equality with God, our share in His life. We may lose it altogether in the end by being jealous of others. If this parable went on and the older son was obstinate in his anger, would he lose both the inheritence and the love, which is the true reward?
I have met Christians who are 'angry'. Angry because they can't win converts, angry because they feel that they are not persuasive, hateful to those they can not persuade. Yes, for all the work they do for the father, they show their true colors in wanting more. I think Phat is right, they want to be special. They also fear...fear that their inability to convert another is a failure of God's message.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by GDR, posted 04-09-2007 9:38 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by purpledawn, posted 04-10-2007 9:56 AM anastasia has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3486 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 18 of 23 (394212)
04-10-2007 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by anastasia
04-09-2007 10:20 PM


Not About Salvation
quote:
Is it at all significant that at the end of the parable the older son still has his inheritence? The inheritence here is obviously not 'salvation'. It is comething 'extra'. Something he obviously does not need at the moment while living under his father's care. I think that this inheritence is equality. We may squander our equality with God, our share in His life. We may lose it altogether in the end by being jealous of others.
This story is about having a right relationship with God, not salvation. We do what is right because we love God, not because we will be compensated.
Many things can and have been read into this parable, but the bare bones of it are explained in these two verses.
This verse pertains to the younger son:
Luke 15:10
"In the same way, I tell you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God over one sinner who repents."
This verse pertains to the elder son:
Luke 15:31
"And he said to him, 'Son, you have always been with me, and all that is mine is yours.
It's like a mother with two daughters. The older daughter has always been an excellent student and received good grades. For the younger daughter, good grades didn't come so easily.
When the younger daugther finally brings home an A on her report card the mother wants to celebrate by cooking the younger daughter's favorite meal. The older daughter is jealous because she never got that kind of attention for her A's.
Since the parable ends after the father explains his actions to his son, the conclusion is that the elder son understands; so both sons are on the road to a better relationship with their father.
For some it is easy to love God and follow his commands. For others it is a struggle.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by anastasia, posted 04-09-2007 10:20 PM anastasia has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 04-10-2007 4:46 PM purpledawn has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18348
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 19 of 23 (394297)
04-10-2007 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by purpledawn
04-10-2007 9:56 AM


Re: Not About Salvation
PD writes:
Since the parable ends after the father explains his actions to his son, the conclusion is that the elder son understands; so both sons are on the road to a better relationship with their father.
I suppose we don't know for sure. I guess I am projecting my own fleshly feelings into the sons. The younger one was fed up with rebellion because he had experienced all that the alternatives to home life had to offer. The elder son, however, would have to humble himself in order to accept the celebration. His jealousy would have to be dealt with---by himself. Thats where I find myself sometimes. I expect privilege and balk when I am treated no better than anyone else. I don't know why I have this hang-up. Insecurity, perhaps?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by purpledawn, posted 04-10-2007 9:56 AM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by purpledawn, posted 04-11-2007 3:31 PM Phat has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3486 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 20 of 23 (394460)
04-11-2007 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
04-10-2007 4:46 PM


Re: Not About Salvation
quote:
The younger one was fed up with rebellion because he had experienced all that the alternatives to home life had to offer.
You're missing the point. It had nothing to do with him being out on his own and had everything to do with bad decisions and wrong behavior. The operative words being, squandered and loose living.
Luke 15:13-14
"And not many days later, the younger son gathered everything together and went on a journey into a distant country, and there he squandered his estate with loose living.
"Now when he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred in that country, and he began to be impoverished.
Since he squandered his money he had to find work and ended up hired to feed pigs. It finally dawns on him that his father's hired help eat better than he is, so why not work for Dad.
Luke 15:17-19
"But when he came to his senses, he said, 'How many of my father's hired men have more than enough bread, but I am dying here with hunger! I will get up and go to my father, and will say to him, "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in your sight; I am no longer worthy to be called your son; make me as one of your hired men."'
Yes the elder son needed to understand that there was no reason for him to be jealous.
Maybe the parable of the lowest seat might help.
Luke 14:7-11
And He began speaking a parable to the invited guests when He noticed how they had been picking out the places of honor at the table, saying to them,
"When you are invited by someone to a wedding feast, do not take the place of honor, for someone more distinguished than you may have been invited by him, and he who invited you both will come and say to you, 'Give your place to this man,' and then in disgrace you proceed to occupy the last place.
"But when you are invited, go and recline at the last place, so that when the one who has invited you comes, he may say to you, 'Friend, move up higher'; then you will have honor in the sight of all who are at the table with you.
"For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 04-10-2007 4:46 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by GDR, posted 04-12-2007 5:58 PM purpledawn has replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 21 of 23 (394669)
04-12-2007 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by purpledawn
04-11-2007 3:31 PM


About revolution
We read the story of the Prodigal Son today as having a timeless truth to tell us about our relationship with God. The meaning according to NT Wright, (and I agree with him), that Jesus would have originally had is something altogether different.
The return of the prodigal represented the return of the exile of Israel, and God re-establishing his kingdom. Jesus represented Yahweh returning in a way that did not conform with 1st century Jewish thinking. Their thinking was more along the lines of getting out from under the Romans, whereas Jesus was saying that God had a completely different plan in mind.
The older brother represents the Pharisees and the lawyers of the day who weren't the least bit interested in having God establish his kingdom in this manner.
It is interesting that now we can use the revolutionary political teachings of Jesus to find completely different and more timeless truths 2000 years later. IMHO it is evidence of the idea that there is divine inspiration in scripture.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by purpledawn, posted 04-11-2007 3:31 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by purpledawn, posted 04-12-2007 6:11 PM GDR has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3486 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 22 of 23 (394674)
04-12-2007 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by GDR
04-12-2007 5:58 PM


Parable Not Analogy
The only problem is that it's a parable and not an analogy.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by GDR, posted 04-12-2007 5:58 PM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by GDR, posted 04-12-2007 7:05 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 23 of 23 (394691)
04-12-2007 7:05 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by purpledawn
04-12-2007 6:11 PM


Re: Parable Not Analogy
True, but it is a parable that meant something different to 1st century Jews than it does to us today.

Everybody is entitled to my opinion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by purpledawn, posted 04-12-2007 6:11 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024