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Author | Topic: The Meaning of Life for Atheists | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Hi Agobot,
quote: Close. In my view life has no innate meaning, nor should we expect there to be any innate meaning. That does not, however, mean that life is meaningless. Subjective meaning is still meaning, even if it is basically a personal invention. Also, I think it is worth mentioning that if I am right in saying that there are no gods, then it is not just atheists who must rely upon artificial meaning; theists are in the same boat.
quote: I really don't think that is how I would put it. Evolution is not random and as for the first origin of life, I really don't know enough about it to be making judgements. Also quite a lot of life forms don't have sex.
quote: I definitely don't agree with that. Like I say, not all life forms have sex. Very early life probably did not.
quote: Sex? Or reproduction? I presume you mean the latter. If so, what is my purpose in life? Whatever my moniker might suggest, I do not have children. Further, I am infertile and thus cannot reproduce. Does that make my life meaningless? Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
quote: So you are referring to the meaning of human life.
quote: Well I am an atheist and I disagree that sex is the purpose of human life (especially since you fail to make clear whether you actually mean sex or reproduction), so your position must be wrong.
quote: Not even close. the only thing close to a "basic tenet of atheism" is a lack of belief in God or gods. That's it. No further elaboration is required. If you think that there is no such thing as a god, you are an atheist, no matter what else you might believe.
quote: Don't hold your breath!
quote: Huh? You never used the word "replication". You didn't answer my question by the way. If I can't reproduce, is my life meaningless? Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
quote: But that is a contradiction; if I have subjective meaning, then my life is obviously not meaningless. If I lack objective meaning, that just makes me the same as everybody else, since I don't believe that any such thing exists. If meaning is so objective, why are we finding it so elusive? If it is objective, can you prove that it exists?
quote: Exactly the problem. That my ancestors started having sex is nothing more than a phenomenon, no meaning is involved. Meaning requires conciousness and the first sexually reproducing organisms were not concious.
quote: Nature does not have a point of view. If I remember correctly, you are not an atheist. Why so keen to tell others what they think? From my point of view, reproduction is simply part of the "how" of life. It is not part of the "why". Indeed, I do not believe that there is an objective reason "why" beyond human action (and perhaps not even there). There is no such thing as objective purpose or meaning. All such things are human constructs. That I think this at all suggests that you do not understand atheists as well as you think you do. Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Why do you even bother to debate when you ignore most of what is said? Especially when the only bit of my message that you did reply to involved your admission that you cannot demonstrate the existence of this "objective meaning" you are so keen to foist upon me.
If you can't demonstrate that there is objective meaning and you don't believe it yourself, why waste time?
quote: Ah, that's why. You are trolling. Sad.
quote: Who are these mythical atheists? I never said that, or anything like it. If you are going to try and put words in my mouth, could you try and make them less stupid please? I do not know that there are no gods. I believe that there are no gods. I happily admit that I could be wrong. Attempting to portray this position as religiose is simply mudslinging. I suggest that you try asking people their opinion instead of pretending that you already know what it is.
quote: You imply that you are more sympathetic toward religion than I am, yet I would never resort to such a woefully unfair characterisation of how religious people think. Religious people, even those who are actually Christian, do not explain everything by reference to the Bible. Do you really think that Christians use the Bible to explain how their cars work?
quote: In other words, you are behaving like a child. Do grow up Agobot. Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
Here is another way of looking at the topic.
Life is a property/process that is displayed by an incredibly tiny percentage of the matter in our universe, namely living things. Nuclear fusion is also a property/process that is displayed by a somewhat larger, but still very tiny percentage of matter in our universe, namely stars. So what is the meaning of nuclear fusion? What is the meaning of stars? If you can see the absurdity in those two questions, you may be able to see why I find ideas of an intrinsic meaning of life so absurd. Life is nothing special. It may be unusual, but it is only our anthropocentric outlook that persuades us that we are meaningful. In truth, everyone must find meaning for themselves. Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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Granny Magda Member Posts: 2462 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.1 |
quote: No, it is you who is making assumptions, with the apparent aim of making me agree with the imaginary atheists in your head. I am not making assumptions that I "know" anything. I am offering you my opinion. That I don't couch every last sentence with "possibly" or "to the best of our knowledge" or "in my humble opinion" is simply a matter of writing style. I refuse to clutter my writing with unnecessary disclaimers that any reasonably intelligent reader ought to be able to take for granted. I do not know everything. I am stating my opinions. Okay? Of course, by the same token, I might ask you how you know that there is objective meaning, and with a good deal more justification, since, if there is objective meaning, you should be able to point out some evidence of it. But I have no problem with you stating your opinion.
quote: Meaning is entirely unconnected to belief in deities. Even if there were a God, that would not provide objective meaning. Mutations are completely off topic.
quote: Don't be absurd. Where on Earth did I give the impression that I had absolute knowledge of the universe. You are attempting to put words in my mouth again and I do not appreciate it. Telling other people what they think is exactly the kind of radicalism that you are complaining of. Please stop it and let me voice my own opinions, not your ridiculous straw men.
quote: All irrelevant. You are trying to obfuscate by retreating into your usual MO of confused gibbering about physics. It's totally off topic.
quote: Are you seriously telling me that you can't see the contradiction in that statement? I will try to spell this out for you as simply as I can; You are not an atheist.I am an atheist. You said "i posit that what All atheists collectively can agree on as an objectively existing and scientifically proven purpose of life is - sex.". I told you that I do not agree with your premise. By definition, that means that not all atheists agree that sex is the objective meaning of life. Okay? Why not let other people decide for themselves what they believe, instead of trying to shoehorn them into your preconceived ideas about what they ought to think so that they might fit your idea of a radical atheist.
quote: I am of the opinion that there is no objective meaning, so we appear to agree at last.
Agobot writes: Granny writes: From my point of view, reproduction is simply part of the "how" of life. When worded like that, atheism is not radical and even makes sense. Great. Except that the above comment has absolutely nothing to do with atheism. Mutate and Survive "The Bible is like a person, and if you torture it long enough, you can get it to say almost anything you'd like it to say." -- Rev. Dr. Francis H. Wade
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