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Author Topic:   Why Evolution is science
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 102 of 200 (374098)
01-03-2007 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by platypus
11-13-2006 6:40 PM


Yeah.....take those blinders off your eyes, its YECS coming through!
Amazing, and what Mechanism would that be? A reiification fallacy?
Let me demonstrate how Creation Science is the real Science.
First of all, Evolution...take away Natural Selection, Variation and Speciation. All stolen from the Young Earth Creation Scientist Edward Blythe. What do you have left?
NADA! You have.."change." And Philosophically, a permanent change is self refuting, since it would imply a constant change!
Next, I'll provide solid proof that Creation Science is a valid Science, and is both a) falsifiable and b) has valid evidential support for it, and what that support actually is.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by platypus, posted 11-13-2006 6:40 PM platypus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by PaulK, posted 01-03-2007 5:58 PM Casey Powell has replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 200 (374102)
01-03-2007 5:41 PM


Creation Science has valid Evidence
No Vestigial/useless organs, meaning that Intelligent Design is implied.
The Angular Size of the Moon, Gravity, the Sun, the Moon, Neptune's, Finely Tuned Universe, Uranus, a strange planet in itself, the energy balance of Uranus, Venus's cauldron of fire, double sieze enzymes, the cell, evidence against Evolution and for Creation, Motors, Mutation and Design, flat leaves, the venus flytrap, orchids, fungi, sylvan symphony, Abalone Armour, Ants and their swarming intelligence, the black and blue butterflies, dancing bees, their flights and navigation, how they decide on quality of food source, the bombardier beetle, the butterfly, coral, crayfish tails, crustaceans, cuttlefish, Damselfly, Dragonflies and their acrobatics, the ear in the tiny fly, The fly's ability to fly, Earthworms, the Giant squid, Hermit Crabs, Hitch hiking insects, horseshoe crab, hoverflies, jellyfish, lobster eyes, the love trap (orchids and gnats), Octopus suckers, the Peripatus, the Praying Mantis, the Sea Horse, Sea Dragons, the Shrimpy superboxer, the Snail, the Spone's super spicules, Termites and Trilobites....and much MUCH more!
And no, this stuff hasn't been "refuted." Evolutionists can't even begin to explain them!

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 104 of 200 (374103)
01-03-2007 5:44 PM


Creation Science is Falsifiable!
The Evolutionary Double Standard
Characteristic Creation
Hypothesis
Evolution
Hypothesis
Primary approach to scientific methodology
Accumulation and analysis of empirical data through observation, repetition & measurement.
Accumulation and analysis of empirical data through observation, repetition & measurement.
Predominant religious/philosophical
belief system
Biblical Christianity
Humanistic Naturalism
Primary means of demonstrating system’s
positive empirical support
Citation of empirical data
Citation of empirical data
Primary means of criticizing
counterpart system
Citation of empirical data
A priori rejection on basis of religious/ philosophical differences
Table 1. Close examination reveals that evolutionists’ out-of-hand dismissal of the creation paradigm is due more to their own tightly held religious predispositions”which range from humanistic naturalism to outright atheism”than to matters of empirical science.
The Talk.Origins Archive “Welcome FAQ” also ascribes the following set of (reasonable) requirements to a genuinely scientific theory:
“A scientific theory must have predictive value, must be internally consistent, must be falsifiable, and must explain at least those phenomena explained by the currently dominant theory.”

These traits do loosely constitute a popular norm in defining scientific theories. As shall be seen below, an analysis of both the creation and evolution models reveals that the two theories conform with comparable integrity to such demands, when adequate information and analysis are allowed into the picture. But in typically dismissive style, the FAQ declares that:
“such statements as ”God created the heavens and the earth...’ are not theories, as they are neither predictive nor falsifiable.”
What the Talk.Origins authors have failed to tell their readers is that there is much more to the creation science model than simply declaring “God created the heavens and the earth,” including much that is both as falsifiable and predictive (if not more so) as the evolutionary model.
What then is the Theory of Creation?
Table 2 (below) highlights a series of fundamental components of biblical young-earth creationism, providing a basic rendering of the creationary paradigm. To help illustrate its key points vis--vis the evolutionary model, they are presented side by side for comparison. This list is by no means exhaustive, and is likely to grow over time.
Comparison of the Evolutionary & Creationary Origins Theories
Phenomenon/Condition Creation
Hypothesis
Evolution
Hypothesis
Predominant a priori Assumptions (i.e., Philosophical Basis) concerning the Nature, Source, and Limits of Knowledge[4]
As with all man’s endeavors, true science will inevitably honor the Creator and affirm the Bible as His true and accurate record, wherever it addresses the historical past
Man’s scientific endeavors will inevitably affirm man’s autonomy and independence in determining what is true and what is false
Empirically Falsifiable?
No
No
Empirically Falsified?
No
No
Predominant approach
to the Bible[5]
The biblical record is accepted as a reliable historical basis of interpreting empirical data
The biblical record is rejected as a reliable historical basis, and replaced with strict philosophical naturalism as a basis of interpreting empirical data
Empirically Falsifiable?
No
No
Empirically Falsified?
No
No
Ultimate Primal Cause of Time, Space, and Matter/Energy[6]
God Created...
Time, space, and matter are either eternal or self-created.
Empirically Falsifiable?
No
Yes
Empirically Falsified?
No
Yes
Complexity, Variety and Adaptability in Living Organisms and Ecological Systems[7]
Inherent and complete in original populations as created; manifested (and subject to degradation) over time through genetic variation and natural selection
Increased over time from zero via DNA copying errors (i.e., mutations), natural selection, and millions of years
Empirically Falsifiable?
Yes
Yes
Empirically Falsified?
No
Yes
Massive amounts of Coded Genetic Information[8]
Inherent and complete in original populations as created; sum total has steadily declined over time via mutational degradation
Increased over time from zero via DNA copying errors (i.e., mutations), natural selection, and millions of years
Empirically Falsifiable?
Yes
Yes
Empirically Falsified?
No
Yes
Similarities, ranging from Genetic to Morphological, between various Organisms[9]
Indicative of Creator’s prerogative to employ similar or identical structures or information sequences for similar structures or similar functions in different organisms
Residual evidence that multiple different organisms descended from common ancestors
Empirically Falsifiable?
No
No
Empirically Falsified?
No
No
Billions of Organisms quickly Buried in sedimentary Rock Layers laid down by Water all over the Earth[10]
Global Flood & aftermath
Millions of years of gradual or intermittent burial
Empirically Falsifiable?
No
No
Empirically Falsified?
No
No
The Ice Age[11]
Post-Flood climate compensation
Unknown
Empirically Falsifiable?
No
No
Empirically Falsified?
No
No
Entropy Law as formalized in the Second Law of Thermodynamics[12]
Concurs, indicating a beginning (concurrent with or close to beginning of time) followed by constant degradation
Contradicts, postulating mechanism-free constant increase in order, complexity, and genetic information
Empirically Falsifiable?
Yes
Yes
Empirically Falsified?
No
Yes
Apparent Order or Sequence in Fossil Record[13]
General pattern of ecological zones quickly buried from lower to higher elevations; variations expected
Strict pattern of million-year depositions from “simple” to “complex”; variations (i.e., anomalies) problematic
Empirically Falsifiable?
Yes
Yes
Empirically Falsified?
No
Yes
Erratic “Ages” given by Radiometric and various other Uniformitarian Processes[14]
Residual effect of catastrophic processes and conditions during the flood
Selective and dogmatic use of supportive “ages” & dismissal or disparagement of any conflicting indicators
Empirically Falsifiable?
Yes
Yes
Empirically Falsified?
No
Yes
Table 2. The so-called “non-existent” creation theory, when examined with a measure of objectivity, manages to explain most empirical data with at least as much credibility as the evolutionary counterpart.
Where is the Theory of Creation documented?
Some of the most vocal opponents of creationary thought, ostensibly repulsed by the work involved in objectively studying the technical details of an unfamiliar matter, persist in demanding something like a one- or two-sentence “theory of creation” [preferrably subservient to their naturalistic presuppositions]. Their insistence on such a simplistic approach to both evolution and creation has its reasons: Evolution appears more credible when essential technical details remain beyond scrutiny, whereas creation finds its most compelling substantiation in technical, detailed analyses of actual empirical data and scientifically sound principles vis-a-vis both perspectives.
While a simplistic “sound bite” approach to the origins issue may be fashionable by contemporary popular media standards, genuine science remains a matter of technical details, empirical data, and thorough analysis of the same. So what awaits those who sincerely seek an authentic theory of creation is not another sugar-coated pill, but a body of literature comprising a technical “second opinion” bringing into question the superficial diagnosis popularly embraced by a world reluctant to face the implications of a sovereign Creator who has spoken.
Whereas the landscape of popular media and selected “science” texts are peppered with simplistic allusions to evolutionary theory as fact, literature describing and explaining the creationary alternative, while not as plentiful as its dominant counterpart, is readily available to those who seriously want to study it. This is where the details of empirical science are brought to bear against both competing paradigms. [Sadly, the same cannot be said for the vast majority of evolutionary literature, which largely persists in treating the assumption of evolution as an immutable fact (and, on that basis, an inevitable conclusion), while heaping derision on heavily caricatured renderings of the creationary perspective.]
Books
Each of the following books offers a fairly balanced presentation of at least some aspect of the creationary paradigm, or model, of origins. All are written, at least in part, by Ph.D. scientists. The list begins with general and/or early overviews and moves toward somewhat more specialized and/or recent offerings.
Morris, Henry M., ed., Scientific Creationism [0-89052-003-2]
(Green Forest, AR: Master Books, 1985)
Morris, Henry M. and Gary E. Parker, What is Creation Science? [0-89051-081-4]
(El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1987)
Wilder-Smith, A. E., Man’s Origin, Man’s Destiny [0-87123-356-8]
(Wheaton, IL: Harold Shaw Co., 1968)
Wilder-Smith, A. E., Scientific Alternative to Neo-Darwinian Evolutionary Theory [9992139676]
(Costa Mesa, CA: TWFT Publishers, 1987)
Whitcomb, John C. and Henry Morris, The Genesis Flood [0-87552-338-2]
(Philadelphia: Presbyterian and Reformed Publishing Co., 1964)
Roth, Ariel A., Origins”Linking Science and Scripture [0-8280-1328-4]
(Hagarstown , MD: Review and Herals Publishing Association, 1998)
Woodmorappe, John, Studies in Flood Geology [0-932766-54-4]
(El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1993)
Woodmorappe, John, Noah’s Ark: A Feasibility Study [0-932766-41-2]
(El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1996)
Woodmorappe, John, The Mythology of Modern Dating Methods [0-932766-57-9]
(El Cajon, CA: Institute for Creation Research, 1999)
Batten, Don, Editor The Answers Book [0-949906-23-9]
(Brisbane, Australia: Answers in Genesis, 1999)
Sarfati, Jonathan, Refuting Evolution [089051258-2]
(Brisbane, Australia: Answers in Genesis, 1999)
A slightly more descriptive list appears at http://trueorigin.org/books.asp, while two much more extensive bibliographies are http://trueorigin.org/booklist.asp and http://trueorigin.org/imp-269a.asp.
Many of these books can be purchased in the U.S. through the Creation Research Society, the Institute for Creation Research, and Answers in Genesis”the last of which also trades on a nearly worldwide basis.

http://www.trueorigin.org/creatheory.asp
Edited by AdminModulous, : rendered part of a long copy/paste invisible. use peek to see the full thing.

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by AdminModulous, posted 01-03-2007 5:52 PM Casey Powell has not replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 105 of 200 (374106)
01-03-2007 5:50 PM


Icing on the Cake
Evolution is refuted by Natural Selection!
Evolution is also refuted by Variation!
There are only a handful of potential transitional fossils, we should have a ton more that are legitimate than we do here. Talk Origins has been refuted and pounded hard on that one.
Genetics actually end up hurting Evolution in the end.
And last but not least, Evolution has been stultified, and can not advance:
Why evolution can’t advance
Cars: evidence against evolution?
by Renton Maclachlan
Imagine a standard model car as it rolls out of a vehicle assembly plant. No frills, just the basic vehicle.
Now imagine that we want to produce a ”Deluxe’ version of the same vehicle, and beyond that a ”Super Sports Grand Prix.’ The Deluxe model has extras such as a radio/cassette, body trim, rear window heater, rev-counter, power steering.
To produce the standard car you require instruction manuals to produce all the pieces that make it up. But now that you are adding features, such as a stereo, etc., you need extra information put into those manuals to describe the production and assembly procedures for all of the added features, plus alteration of the standard information so the new bits will fit.
If we now go to the ”Super Sports Grand Prix,’ it has a CD player as well as a 15-band graphic equalizer and electric aerial, a sunroof, mag wheels with locking wheel nuts, fuel injection, four-speed automatic gearbox, high compression head with four valves per cylinder plus other engine refinements which together increase horsepower by 50%, triple swing-away quartz halogen headlights, remotely controlled wing mirrors, computerized ignition and braking systems, car phone, air bags, cruise control, fully reclining pure leather bucket seats, and it’s a fastback with aerofoils and tinted windows.
These additions require thousands of pages of new, detailed, and highly accurate information to be put into the production and assembly manuals. And this is not taking into account all the specialized machines that need to be built”with all their production and assembly manuals”so that the new pieces for the car can, in fact, be built!
Precisely the same sort of thing would have been necessary for the evolution of living things (if it were true)”only living things have all the production manuals and machines within them!
Beginning with raw chemistry, living things would have to have acquired, over time, the myriad complex systems so common to us today. But for every postulated evolutionary advance, that is, for the acquisition of every new system, an increase of information is required. This is because biological systems, like cars, derive from information. They do not come out of thin air. The information comes before, and gives rise to the systems. Thus, to get new systems you first of all need new information.
However, as evolution has no way to get either any initial information, or the information necessary for each increase in complexity,1 it can be ruled out of contention as the way living things came to be.
Renton MacLachlan has been promoting creation science for about 20 years. He is married to Merilyn, who home-schools their three daughters. He directed Inter-School Christian Fellowship summer camps for a decade, and has a concern to publicly challenge non-Christian thought. Return to top.

http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/216
Edited by AdminModulous, : rendered part of a long copy/paste invisible. use peek to see the full thing.

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 108 of 200 (374154)
01-03-2007 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by PaulK
01-03-2007 5:58 PM


Re: Yeah.....take those blinders off your eyes, its YECS coming through!
Most of this is presented by Andrew Bradbury's writing. His whole book has been provided for all to view here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by PaulK, posted 01-03-2007 5:58 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2007 2:50 AM Casey Powell has replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 200 (374350)
01-04-2007 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by PaulK
01-04-2007 2:50 AM


Re: Yeah.....take those blinders off your eyes, its YECS coming through!
Thats because Natural Selection, Variation and Speciation have nothing to do with Common Descent. Thats Evolution, which is intrinsically a reductio ad absurdum.
In other words, NS and Evolution are mutually exclusive terms. They are not related to one another. NS actually refutes Evolution. Darwin's main purpose and drive was to establish a Philosophy known by most intelligent Philosophers as Naturalism and then call it "Science."
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2007 2:50 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Straggler, posted 01-04-2007 11:05 AM Casey Powell has not replied
 Message 112 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2007 11:07 AM Casey Powell has replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 113 of 200 (374368)
01-04-2007 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by PaulK
01-04-2007 11:07 AM


Re: Yeah.....take those blinders off your eyes, its YECS coming through!
You've yet to offer anything suggesting that Blyth beleived that speciation was even possible, let alone that natural selection played a role in it.
And if Blyth rejected common descent then he certainly rejected the possiblity that speciation could occur in part of a population (cladogenesis), leaving a significant discovery for Darwin.
Let us cover this issue here then, shall we? Francis Hitching mentioned that Eiseley had chronicled quite substantial portions of Darwin's writings that were nearly "word for word identical between Darwin and Blyth"" although Blyth's ideas preceded Darwin's publication of The Origin by over twenty years (I do not necessarily agree with Eiseley on the strict word for word comparison, however compare this from the Magazine of Natural History in 1835, which Darwin read on the Beagle, with Darwin's earlier chapters on natural selection in his Origin) .(9)
Large parts of Darwin's personal notes during this period in 1835 reflected his familiarity with Blyth's writings, yet for some mysterious reason fifty pages of Darwin's notebook from this time are missing, with the cryptic reference "All useful pages cut out," (6) added by Darwin in 1856.
This does not prove that Darwin purposely hid reference to Blyth's writings. You can draw your own conclusions.
Darwin's own copy of Magazine of Natural History in 1837 showed that he made use of Blyth's paper of that year, the same year when he first claimed to have come up with the idea of natural selection on his own,(7)wherein Blyth had written essentially the same basic doctrine that Darwin took credit for.(8)
Eiseley wrote, "At that moment, probably in 1837, the Origin was born."
William Wells had actually written of natural selection in 1813 (as had many others, however it was Blyth's writing that Darwin clearly was impressed by during his voyage, and it was Blyth who saw natural selection in a creationist context) but Darwin claimed that he was unfamiliar with Well's writings at the time of the original publication of The Origin of Species.
Later on, after being brought to task by certain individuals for taking credit for an idea that was not his own, Darwin gave Wells credit for the idea; however Wells originated nothing novel either: as noted, the basic concept of natural selection had been around since ancient Greek time. (Although it is a bit like pulling teeth, evolutionists are finally having to admit that there was really nothing original in what Darwin wrote, however they still insist that he somehow proved evolution. Very few of them can actually cite evidence for this. For more on this century old fable, see Chapter Four of The Darwin Papers)
The significant difference between the writings of Charles Darwin and Edward Blyth was that Blyth was an ardent creationist; (other evolutionists had written of natural selection before Blyth, it's really a pretty simple concept and was nothing new when Darwin wrote about it either, as can be seen from this website), the uniqueness of Blyth's writing was that he saw natural selection within a creationist perspective, not from a purely naturalistic one, and his papers simply flowed with his sense of awe and reverence for the God of creation who had so wonderously and wisely made all of His creatures. Blyth showed that natural selection actually worked better within a creationist framework. Thus, with this major pillar destroyed, the theory of evolution didn't have a leg to stand on, except for the ongoing propaganda campaign conducted by those such as Roland that lends the momentum to continure the charade.
http://www.thedarwinpapers.com/...te/Number2/Darwin2Html.htm
Blythe actually demonstrated how Natural Selection actually works. He was the very first Scientist to ever do this, not Darwin! Darwin and Blythe's writings were basically identical word for word. Why is that?
Well obviously, the burden doesn't fall on Blythe, since his writings were from 1835. But Darwin's writings being 25 years later? Perhaps this could also explain why he got sick on his voyage to the Galapogos (if he even in fact went!).
In other words, NS and Evolution are mutually exclusive terms
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only if NS cannot guide the change of speciation. Even if the entire population became a new species (anagenesis) that would still be evolution. Thus you only confirm the point that this idea belongs to Darwin, not Blyth.
- Problem no. 1 with this is the fact that no new gain of information has ever occurred, and we should expect a TON of this if Evolution were true. So right away, Evolution is really dismissible. Natural Selection does not guide the change within Speciation.
Problem 2:
Here is an example of Blyth's description of natural selection, which, as opposed to Darwin's (and other evolutionist's writings), describes it as a process whereby the original created type of a species has the best chance of surviving among brute animals:
" There has been, strangely enough, a difference of opinion among naturalists, as to whether these seasonal changes of colour were intended by Providence as an adaptation to change of temperature10, or as a means of preserving the various species from the observation of their foes, by adapting their hues to the colour of the surface; against which latter opinion it has been plausibly enough argued, that "nature provides for the preyer as well as for the prey." The fact is, they answer both purposes; and they are among those striking instances of design, which so clearly and forcibly attest the existence of an omniscient great First Cause. Experiment demonstrates the soundness of the first opinion; and sufficient proof can be adduced to show that the other is also sound. Some arctic species are white, which have no enemy to fear, as the polar bear, the gyrfalcon, the arctic eagle-owl, the snowy owl, and even the stoat; and therefore, in these, the whiteness can only be to preserve the temperature of their bodies [VI. 79.]; but when we perceive that the colour of nocturnal animals, and of those defenceless species whose habits lead them to be much exposed, especially to enemies from above, are invariably of the same colour with their respective natural haunts, we can only presume that this is because they should not appear too conspicuous to their enemies.".
Blyth, Magazine of Natural History, 1835
http://www.thedarwinpapers.com/...te/Number2/Darwin2Html.htm
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Darwin's main purpose and drive was to establish a Philosophy known by most intelligent Philosophers as Naturalism and then call it "Science."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Got any evidence for that incredible assertion ? Or is it more of the usual slander we've come to expect from creationists ?
Slander nothing. Why do Scientists today claim that only Naturalism is Science? Do you happen to realize that none of that was even considered until the Age of Enlightenment? The Greeks used to combine God and Science! Being that Creation Science has not been refuted, it is in fact the Evolutionists who carry the burden of proof, though, they always love to shift it over to the YECS side.
Also see: Francis Hitching, an evolutionist, wrote: "Darwin took everything Blyth had said and used it to support an opposite conclusion"(10) i.e. the denial of the miraculous and of special creation. Darwin changed natural selection around to mean evolutionary descent of all beings from a common ancestor, which was never Blyth's original contention at all." http://www.thedarwinpapers.com/...te/Number2/Darwin2Html.htm
The author seems to dance around the issues here and does not stand firmly committed to any position for the most part. What is significant however are the quotes surrounding his claims.
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2007 11:07 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Straggler, posted 01-04-2007 12:18 PM Casey Powell has replied
 Message 129 by PaulK, posted 01-04-2007 12:38 PM Casey Powell has replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 200 (374370)
01-04-2007 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by jar
01-04-2007 11:58 AM


Re: A request
HUH?
Why then are you attacking the Biblical Creationists here? Thats a Genetic Fallacy at work. Your hypocrisy shines through Jar.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by jar, posted 01-04-2007 11:58 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by jar, posted 01-04-2007 12:13 PM Casey Powell has replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 200 (374371)
01-04-2007 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by jar
01-04-2007 11:58 AM


Re: A request
Someone who supports Created Evolution? Thats like...I believe that square circles exist.
I've heard much goofier claims come from Evolutionists though...so I'm not truly that surprised.
Talk Origins gives me a good laugh for the day...also, Pandas Thumb is good for a laugh at times (I love watching their strawman attacks on Intelligent Design).
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by jar, posted 01-04-2007 11:58 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by RickJB, posted 01-04-2007 12:17 PM Casey Powell has replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 119 of 200 (374378)
01-04-2007 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by jar
01-04-2007 12:13 PM


Re: A request
First because they are factually wrong. - You might want to back up why they are "factually" wrong first.
Second because they Cheapen the Word of GOD. - You might want to demonstrate how they cheapen the Word of God second.
Third because they generally are clueless about Christianity or GOD's message. - You might need to demonstrate how they are generally clueless here.
Fourth because they are woefully ignorant about either science or theology. - You might wish to demonstrate how they are woefully ignorant here.
Wanna talk about Ad Hominem attacks? See above.
You really like avoiding issues, don't you? I can tell we're gonna have a fun time already here Jar.
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by jar, posted 01-04-2007 12:13 PM jar has not replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 200 (374379)
01-04-2007 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Admin
01-04-2007 12:14 PM


Re: A request
I agree with you Percy. Lets move on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Admin, posted 01-04-2007 12:14 PM Admin has not replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 123 of 200 (374382)
01-04-2007 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by RickJB
01-04-2007 12:17 PM


Re: A request
They get just about everyone of their arguments wrong. They end up attacking Intelligent Design, and then somehow assume they've refuted Young Earth Creation Science at times too...which is really good for an all out ROFL Bawling with laughter party.
Oh yeah, and they always try to attack goof balls like Kent Hovind and William Dembski too, as if thats supposed to impress the YECS position at all...lol. Anyone who calls himself Dr. Dino deserves what he gets here.
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by RickJB, posted 01-04-2007 12:17 PM RickJB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by RickJB, posted 01-04-2007 12:29 PM Casey Powell has replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 124 of 200 (374385)
01-04-2007 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Straggler
01-04-2007 12:18 PM


Re: Yeah.....take those blinders off your eyes, its YECS coming through!
What? On what grounds exactly do you assert this (without endlessly quoting others - ideally!!)
Through the quotes which make the points that I need to make. That Hitching a close acquantance of Darwin's mentions that Darwin's purpose was to establish Naturalism as Science, as I stated before. All of those quotes are relevant to the issues that I state at hand.
Some arctic species are white, which have no enemy to fear, as the polar bear, the gyrfalcon, the arctic eagle-owl, the snowy owl, and even the stoat; and therefore, in these, the whiteness can only be to preserve the temperature of their bodies
It does not take a genius to see that being relatively undetectable is of benefit to both hunter and prey. A bright red polar bear may well be spotted by it's intended prey long before a purely white one.
The hunter - prey arms race is a common theme in evolution by natural selection and wholly consistent with this theory and with the evidence we find in nature.
We agree with survival of the fittest, but what we don't agree with is that Physical traits are described through it. Thus, I believe the rest of your quote to be a Red Herring so I don't see much reason to address it, except to say that what you're referring to is not Evolution.
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Straggler, posted 01-04-2007 12:18 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 127 of 200 (374390)
01-04-2007 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by RickJB
01-04-2007 12:29 PM


Re: A request
Their attacks on PseudoScientists like Kent Hovind and William Dembski that are supposed to impress YECS and Progressive Creationism...or something, which they never seem to address at all.
If I were to try to refute Alex Chieu, would that impress anybody on the Evolution side? If I assumed that if I refute Alex Chieu, that I've refuted Evolution....how many people would go for that one?
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by RickJB, posted 01-04-2007 12:29 PM RickJB has not replied

  
Casey Powell 
Inactive Member


Message 128 of 200 (374391)
01-04-2007 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by jar
01-04-2007 12:29 PM


Re: A request
And much MUCHH faith. I don't have enough faith to be an Evolutionist. I don't see Fideism as a viable option.
Edited by Casey Powell, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by jar, posted 01-04-2007 12:29 PM jar has not replied

  
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