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Stars and a 6000 year old universe.

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Author Topic:   Stars and a 6000 year old universe.
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
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Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 1 of 28 (220037)
06-27-2005 1:26 PM

Recently quite a few of the star catalogues have been updated. IIRC, USNO-B 1.0 contains over a billion individual objects.
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What would be the implications of all of those objects residing within a sphere with a radius of 6000 light years?
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 Message 7 by GDR, posted 06-27-2005 9:15 PM jar has replied
 Message 14 by Slim Jim, posted 06-28-2005 4:33 AM jar has replied
  
jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 4 of 28 (220165)
06-27-2005 5:05 PM 		Reply to: Message 3 by dsv
06-27-2005 5:02 PM

Well, to be stars there does seem to be a minimal size. How big would that be?
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 8 of 28 (220239)
06-27-2005 9:28 PM 		Reply to: Message 7 by GDR
06-27-2005 9:15 PM

So if time is the issue, measure the radius of the sphere in cubits.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 17 of 28 (220425)
06-28-2005 11:43 AM 		Reply to: Message 14 by Slim Jim
06-28-2005 4:33 AM

Sure, they bring out many scenarios. One that's been popular here is that before the fall, light was faster, near instantaneous. Then, at the fall, it slowed down.
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Another popular idea is that light was created in transit. Even though the star is further away than 6000 light years, the light traveled a shorter distance since it originated at a distance appropriate to reach the earth at the right time.
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The question I have regarding either of those scenarios concerns the photon after the Fall. It would seem that the first photon after the Fall would be one just as those we currently see, limited to the speed of light.
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Wouldn't that mean that at the moment of the Fall, all the stars would wink out of view, only to gradually reapear in the skies as the first of the normal photons reach the earth? If so, there are no records of such events, and we do know that ancient civilizations kept pretty good records. It's likely they would notice that new stars showed up every night.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 19 of 28 (220435)
06-28-2005 12:06 PM 		Reply to: Message 18 by Chiroptera
06-28-2005 11:54 AM

Imagine if all the stars we see are only withing 6000 light years. And all the stars in the star catalogues compiled 1000 years ago were all within 5000 light years of the earth. And a clear record of new stars coming into view, consistent with the light from more distant stars finally reaching the earth, continuing even now.
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Okay, very close to the question in the OP,
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Currently there are something over a billion objects catalogued. If all of those objects are actually within a radius of 6000 light years, what can we say about them, and about our knowledge of stars?
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 21 of 28 (220445)
06-28-2005 12:31 PM 		Reply to: Message 20 by Chiroptera
06-28-2005 12:15 PM

To fit such a large number of shining objects (and can we demonstarate that they are shining by their own light and not just reflecting other light), what would the actual physical size of a body be?
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 23 of 28 (220458)
06-28-2005 1:03 PM 		Reply to: Message 22 by Chiroptera
06-28-2005 12:55 PM

Getting very close. Sure moving in the right direction.
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Something with the size and mass of Jupiter does not form a star. Is that correct? Would that set a lower limit on the size?
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 25 of 28 (220461)
06-28-2005 1:14 PM 		Reply to: Message 24 by Chiroptera
06-28-2005 1:09 PM

It would appear that all of these stars being within 6000 light years away would imply that the stars do not shine according to the currently accepted solar-nuclear-fusion model.
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Very good.
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So the next step I'd like to explore is "Is there some alternative mechanism, some alternative method that will allow the small size and observed luminosity?"
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004

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Message 27 of 28 (222675)
07-08-2005 5:41 PM

Bump
just in case someone might have some idea of how the stars we can see might fit in a 6000 year old universe.
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Aslan is not a Tame Lion
  
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