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Author Topic:   A Whale of a Tale
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5116 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 97 of 243 (275522)
01-03-2006 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by randman
01-03-2006 4:28 PM


Re: Put Up or Shut Up!
Randman writes:
No, on this thread, it's the idea that fossil rarity explains the lack of whale ancestral forms when we see large numbers of whale fossils and Basilosaurus. The claim of fossil rarity should indicate hardly any whale fossils be found when in fact they are "commonly found" in marine sediments.
Randman, there's more than one factor in how likely we are to find a fossil of a given species. Three major factors are the probabilities that once an individual organism dies, it will be fossilized, remain in a recognizable form, and then be found by researchers, respectively. These probabilities are all very low for any type of organism, and the probability of all three occurring are much lower - for that individual in question.
Another factor is how abundant and widespread these individuals of a species are when they exist, and the length of time in which they exist. In other words, when a species or form is very abundant and widespread, and is very successful for a long period of time, is likely to have many more individuals that are preserved and later discovered as fossils.
I doubt it's coincidental that the forms in the cetacean family that are (thus far) better-represented in the fossil record are also those that are adapted to an entirely marine lifestyle, and likely had a global oceanic distribution, while those that were at least partially terrestrial (and would therefore have much more limited range) {edit: and are now extinct} would be rarer as fossils.
I'm not an expert in cetacean evolution, but that seems to be an important point that you're missing with regard to fossil rarity or abundance.
This message has been edited by Belfry, 01-03-2006 09:59 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by randman, posted 01-03-2006 4:28 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by randman, posted 01-04-2006 9:27 AM Belfry has replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5116 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 127 of 243 (275738)
01-04-2006 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 102 by randman
01-04-2006 9:27 AM


Re: Put Up or Shut Up!
Randman writes:
not only are whales well-represented, but so are Basilosaurus, which probably fed more in rivers.
Do you have a link or anything to support that? I thought that Basilosaurus was always found in marine strata.
randman writes:
We also seem to have a lot of horse fossils.
Yes, suggesting that horses were widespread, persistent and abundant across terrestrial landscapes.
randman writes:
So where are the comparitive studies of fossils to existing forms in mammals?
What do you mean? This is common practice in evolutionary biology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by randman, posted 01-04-2006 9:27 AM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by randman, posted 01-04-2006 11:48 AM Belfry has not replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5116 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 139 of 243 (275763)
01-04-2006 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by randman
01-04-2006 12:40 PM


Re: quick response
randman writes:
I think this is pretty bogus. First off, I would argue Neanderthals are better thought of a tribe of homo sapiens and not a separate species. They were just people, like you and me. A lot of false information has been spread abotu Neanderthals due to wanting Neanderthals to be transitional, but they are merely a variation of human beings, a tribe of people.
Moreover, the fossil record does show evidence of intermiggling of Neanderthals with other tribes, as some features of both are present in some fossils. It is likely, just as with tribes in modern times, such as with Indians and Caucasians in north America, that a sudden shift can occur which would explain one tribe not being found so much after a certain point.
Although this is off-topic, I would like you to consider defending this position (particularly the part I bolded) in a new thread. You sure make some wild, unsupported assertions for someone who so frequently accuses biologists of doing so!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by randman, posted 01-04-2006 12:40 PM randman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by randman, posted 01-04-2006 1:06 PM Belfry has replied

  
Belfry
Member (Idle past 5116 days)
Posts: 177
From: Ocala, FL
Joined: 11-05-2005


Message 144 of 243 (275768)
01-04-2006 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by randman
01-04-2006 1:06 PM


Re: quick response
randman writes:
why don't you start a thread and state your position, what you believe or have been taught about Neanderthals? Then, we can better see how you feel Neanderthals are not a tribe of people.
I asked you first. Nyah.
You are the one making a positive assertion, therefore you should support it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by randman, posted 01-04-2006 1:06 PM randman has not replied

  
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