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Author Topic:   Darwinists? and other names for "evos"
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 72 (163595)
11-27-2004 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jeafl
11-27-2004 8:50 PM


I don't think it's a rejection of Darwin as much as an acknowledgement that what we know about Evolution has change greatly in the 150 years or so since he published his theories.
When you attach a term like Darwinist it implies that the persons concept of the Theory of Evolution stopped with what was known and speculated upon way back then. It hasn't and the theory continues to be revised and modified as new information and discoveries come to light. The Theory of Evolution is a work in progress and I imagine that if Darwin himself returned he might classify himself as a Gouldist.
Today, that is.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jeafl, posted 11-27-2004 8:50 PM jeafl has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 72 (163608)
11-27-2004 10:03 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jeafl
11-27-2004 9:49 PM


Maybe it's simply a matter of understanding and precision.
But, no one has tried to explain to me how macroevolution can happen without Darwin’s survival of the fittest.
Survival of the fittest is more a popular slang term than anything really related to the Theory of Evolution. It is somewhat misleading since it sounds like it is assigning some value or quality criteria, critter A is Fitter than critter B.
Actually, it's Natural Selction. There are two basic parts to the Theory of Evolution. One is that change happens all the time, that there are mutations that go on all the time in every critter.
The second part is Natural Selection. Every once in a while one or more of the random changes might give one critter an advantage in reproducing. Maybe it can feed more efficiently and so spends less energy eating and more energy screwing around, or maybe it's faster and so less likely to get eaten and so has more time to screw around. That critter has a better chance of living long enough to breed and so pass that trait on to future critters.
But the Theory has changed much since Darwin. There is still no such thing that I have seen as Macroevolution. So far it just looks like lots of time and lots of little changes. There is the newer modifications to the Theory to explain newer evidence, for example, the long periods with little change followed by short periods of great and abrupt change.
So it's still the Theory of Evolution but if Darwin returned today he'd have a bunch of studying to do to catch up.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jeafl, posted 11-27-2004 9:49 PM jeafl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by AdminNosy, posted 11-27-2004 10:05 PM jar has replied
 Message 11 by berberry, posted 11-27-2004 10:17 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 10 of 72 (163610)
11-27-2004 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by AdminNosy
11-27-2004 10:05 PM


Re: Topic!
Yes Massa.
but I was closer to on topic than nosy. I at least tried to bring it back to talking about dawinism.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 72 (163692)
11-28-2004 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by jeafl
11-28-2004 7:07 AM


To try to move back towards the subject.
I don't think that the term Darwinism or Darwinist is actually used except by the Creationist fringe groups. I imagine that it is less the term that ruffles folk's feathers than the source. When it is used by people like Morris and the ICR crowd it is hard to generate more feeling than simple derision. Many people using the term can easily mistake such derision for indignation or defensiveness, but really, it is only disdainful laughter.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by jeafl, posted 11-28-2004 7:07 AM jeafl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by happy_atheist, posted 11-28-2004 2:42 PM jar has not replied
 Message 43 by jeafl, posted 11-28-2004 10:07 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 46 of 72 (163763)
11-28-2004 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by jeafl
11-28-2004 10:07 PM


Re: To try to move back towards the subject.
How do you explain the visceral reaction I get when I use the term Darwinist when the offended person does not yet know that I am Creationist?
I have no explaination for whatever visceral feeling YOU get. As I explained, my experience has been the most common reaction to the term Darwinist is not offense but rather a somewhat pained chuckle. It's more the reaction you get when a little kid uses terms totally incorrectly. It pains you that they know so little but try to sound so grown up, but you still hope that one day they will grow up for real. The problem is figuring out how to help them over the hurdles without damaging their little psyche.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by jeafl, posted 11-28-2004 10:07 PM jeafl has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by jeafl, posted 11-28-2004 10:47 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 55 of 72 (163773)
11-28-2004 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by jeafl
11-28-2004 10:47 PM


Re: To try to move back towards the subject.
I can't imagine how you got that out of what I wrote. Let's look at what I said again.
I have no explaination for whatever visceral feeling YOU get. As I explained, my experience has been the most common reaction to the term Darwinist is not offense but rather a somewhat pained chuckle. It's more the reaction you get when a little kid uses terms totally incorrectly. It pains you that they know so little but try to sound so grown up, but you still hope that one day they will grow up for real. The problem is figuring out how to help them over the hurdles without damaging their little psyche.
That is the feeling I see most often. I can't begin to guess what feelings you get.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by jeafl, posted 11-28-2004 10:47 PM jeafl has not replied

  
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