The Discipline of Conservative Christian Children

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Percy writes:

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There is no point at which children or anyone else will have to choose a gender, so where is your information coming from that any group thinks this false information should be taught?

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Simply being taught at this age about this so called gender fluidity is sufficient to say that the children could fit anywhere into the LGBQT---- categories. Tis leaves them with the question of where do I fit in, without anybody having to ask them to do that, which does not mean that the question isn't asked.

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Percy writes:

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Where is your information coming from?

Here is an example.

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The Case for Starting Sex Education in Kindergarden

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It should come as no surprise that GDR’s source says nothing of the sort. The referenced page is all about love and relationships.The description of the Dutch curriculum that is the main focus: The highlighted section reached by the link says: The closest that can be found is the rather general: Granted that would include homosexuality, but it’s really questionable whether there would be much on transgender issues there. And certainly GDR hasn’t bothered to find out.The following part is also relevant I wonder who could be against that?So no, GDR is not telling the truth when he said he got his ideas from that page. He imposes them on it. As is his usual methodology.

Many of us have been believers just like you so we DO understand. You are. Without the cultural myth, you would not believe what you believe. So you teach your children that there are many gods and many religions and that some people and cultures don't believe in gods at all? And you don't baptise them at birth and take them to your church every Sunday and enrol them into bible classes? Instead you tell the to make up their own minds when they're old enough?

And yet you don't. If you did, you would have stuck with it. The belief would have overshadowed your otherwise rational perceptions and definitions of reality. Your belief would not simply be a myth which you outgrow. You dont get to define what we decide to be myth and/or reality. All that you understand is your current assessment...essentially what you *think* you have learned about religion and human behavior. Around here,your understanding is limited to this ragtag group of ex-believers who "recovered" from a delusion. None of you understand, because you allowed your rationality to frame your belief in context. We have suspended our rationality to a degree. We acknowledge that our choice to believe is by definition irrational. (Your definition, by the way) We understand that your critical thinking rules your choice of rationality, while our belief rules ours.I can be deplorable at times. I can be racist, misogynistic, and selfish. I am ashamed of my behavior at times, but I am NOT ashamed of my honesty, for I also know that my belief will ultimately allow me to reign it in and repent. It is not always easy to believe and do the right thing as much as it is PC to follow the crowd. The majority will always follow the progressive trend. The minority will hold on to their belief by choice.

Nope, that's not how it works. Can you remember how it felt to believe in Father Christmas? It's exactly the same. I sure do. Just like you get to say that all the other religions of the world are myth.Do you get it yet? You are not special. Your beliefs are not special, unique or different to all the other make believe we have in our primitive, superstitious and ignorant cultures.Christianity is just one in tens of thousands of cultural myths. It will eventually go the way of all others.

You've joined the ranks of the scaremongers who use it to advance causes they believe in. They want to convince people that threats that don't actually exist really do exist, such as that education is indoctrination, or that Mexicans bring crime and disease into our country, or that Democrats are coming for your guns.I didn't look at your link because instead of presenting the argument in your own words you just dumped the link and claimed it made your case. But PaulK dissected it and it apparently doesn't make the case you claimed.You can't hide the world from kids, but education can prepare them for it.A neighborhood kid decided around age 10 that they couldn't identify with either sex and chose a new name. Fortunately they live in an informed and accepting community. They sometimes feed our cat when we go away.I hate to think what would have happened had they lived in a community less accepting of LQBTQ issues. It couldn't have done anything but pressure them to suppress their feelings. "We're only concerned for the children," the scaremongers say while paving the road to hell with their words.--Percy

Unfortunately, human nature being what it is, past religions are replaced by new ones.--Percy

I fear that you're right but I'm hoping that religions - in the West at least - are becoming more civilised, or reformed if that's more acceptable. I look to Scandinavia and even here in the UK where there are more non-believers than believers and a trend towards the 'spiritual' and away from religion and dogma.There's something hardwired about belief though...

There are not two sides to every disagreement. The resolution between rationality and idiocy is not somewhere in the middle.Education is not indoctrination. Children learning about the world about them will use that information to go in a variety of directions, but education about wars and murders and LBGTQ is not what causes people to become warmongers, murderers and queer.The Victorian era tried suppression, but the LBGTQ community emerged on the other side unscathed. Not teaching or even publicly acknowledging it as anything more than an aberration didn't change the fact that somewhere around 5-10% of people are at a minimum not wholly comfortable with their birth gender. You see a society with less hate and fear and more acceptance as being morally and ethically weaker, but the opposite is true. You are your own worst enemy, causing the very breakdown in social mores that you're complaining about by sowing more hate and fear.Accept other people as they are and worry more about yourself.--Percy

You can't hide the world from kids. You can't wipe out LGBTQ by removing it from school curricula. It has been around forever, and always will be.Each kid uses what he learns in school differently. Some hear chemistry, science, history or literature and think boring, others think amazing. Some hear about LBGTQ and think "boring," some think "if I meet one I'll beat the shit out of him," some think "not really relevant to me personally but good to know," and some think, maybe as many as 10%, "Gee, that sounds a bit like me."You're worried about kids wondering what they are - why? What's wrong with informed self-examination? Do you see every kid who goes LBGTQ as some kind of failure or as a blemish on society? Are you seeing LBGTQ as a negative thing, and that a child who follows that path in order to find love and fulfillment is making a mistake and bringing society down? Because it sure seems that way. No, it doesn't get sorted out. Did you just arrive from 1950? There you go scaremongering again. Did you know that in some jurisdictions criminals can be sentenced to sex change operations as punishment? See, you're not the only one who can make things up.Caring and charitable people want others to be permitted to pursue happiness, whatever that might mean as long as it doesn't hurt others and with society protecting them from making irreversible choices at too young an age. And then there are those who wish to impose their own views of what should make people happy on them.--Percy

I see your point.
More on this later, after I get ready for work.

Well let’s make it clear to you and GDR.When I was at school everyone was familiar with the idea that there were homosexuals. And there was the usual prejudiced attitude among the kids - they were quite happy to insult others by implying they were “fairies” or the like. if you want to go back to that then just be honest about it.

That is not my heart or my intention at all. And knock of this "lets" stuff. Until you include me and my beliefs in the groups of people you are representing/protecting, you have no moral high ground.

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That is not my heart or my intention at all.

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Then what do you want? Either you let the kids know that some people are gay and that’s all right or you don’t. And if you don’t, if you encourage negative views of gays you are going to get the situation I described - at best.

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And knock of this "lets" stuff. Until you include me and my beliefs in the groups of people you are representing/protecting, you have no moral high ground

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You are making no sense. Why should I have to represent your views to have “the moral high ground”? Why do you think you need “protecting”? And from what?

I've been bothered by this since yesterday. Perhaps it explains why you (i.e. Phat) often seem confused. Perhaps it explains why conservative Christianity seems so unchristian.Belief doesn't work like that. Or, at least, it doesn't work like that for me.For me, any belief is tentative and subject to possible revision. And a belief needs to be looked at and re-examined when there is conflicting information.

You don't don't seem to realise that it's your fundamentalist, right-wing beliefs that allow you to behave this way. Real Christians are none of those things are they? If you believe in a right-wing fundamentalist form of Christianity you'll never be doing the right thing. It would be great if this was true, you understand that progressive means making progress as a society? Sadly it's not just a small minority that thinks it wants to return to the the anti-American values of the 16th century.The declaration that - “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."- is progressive. Pity so many don't wish to follow it.