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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Fake polls, fake news | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
What's even rarer than conspiracies is a delusional mindset. You guys sling that around to explain anything you've been brainwashed into dismissing. Delusional mindsets are actually quite common. Perhaps 1 in 20 people will suffer psychosis up to about 1 in a 100 who would be categorized as schizophrenic. Add that to the number of delusional for other reasons such as stroke, alcohol abuse, head injury and the frequency goes up. When you consider anorexia the frequency goes up.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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Conservatives constantly criticized Obama but they didn't fake the news to bring him down as the liberal media are doing Birth Certificate.Born in Kenya. Fake Signposts. Death Panels. Secret Muslim. Sworn in on Koran. Married a Muslim Man Importing 100 Million Muslims into the USA. Steal Our Guns. Michelle Obama Used Racial Slurs against Whites Gave Away Islands to Russia. Will Steal Your Gold. FEMA concentration camps. Caused the BP oil spill. Caused Hurricane Sandy. Faked bin Laden's Death. Will Carry on for more than Two Terms Teleprompters. No, "the "birther" thing for instance was not manufactured, we still know it's true. Fake news, Faith. Actual fake news. That's why it leaned so heavily on forged documents and photoshopped pictures and innuendo based on reading into the hidden meaning of the translations of unprofessional translators and random diplomats.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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None of that is fake news in the sense of manufactured for the purpose of destroying the man. Yeah, the narrative that Obama is a secret Kenyan Muslim, who is infiltrating the USA to setup a new Muslim country, will steal your guns, become a dictator and take your savings was clearly designed to support his presidency. That's why there were all those court cases trying to declare him ineligible for presidency, the Tea Party....wait - was all this a false flag operation to discredit the right and bolster support for Obama? Damn, those liberals are cunning.
Some of it is no doubt true and will eventually be shown to be true. It hasn't been shown to be true, but will eventually be shown to be true? I can't dispute you have a lot of faith, Faith. Of course, the stuff that hasn't been shown to be true about Trump is fake news, but about Obama - the truth will out eventually - NO DOUBT.
Some of it may be hype or false conspiracy thinking, but none of it is the concerted effort to destroy a man as is being done to Trump. Some of it I've never heard of anyway. While some of it was repeated ad nauseum on the Fox Network, some of the craziest was mostly on Breitbart, Inforwars, World Net Daily and the Daily Caller. But since you have admitted to not following those until recently - it doesn't surprise me you missed some of it.
It was Obama and his helpers who did any faking of documents. Well, you've failed to show this. You mentioned you thought *something* wasn't right. On the other hand:
There was a birth certificate faked from this. I covered it in Message 50 of The Brand New Birther Thread. It said 'Republic of Kenya' although no such place existed at the time of Obama's birth. And it's actually an Australian birth certificate, with the names changed. World net Daily ran it. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
There's a difference between suspecting something to be true and making up stuff for the clear purpose of destroying somebody. Fake news is the latter But clearly the people that faked documents, photoshopped pictures and edited videos didn't suspect it was true - they were trying to present information in a deceptive way with the clear purpose of destroying Obama. So it was the latter and was fake news.
that's what they are doing to Trump. No, Trump is doing much of the damage to himself. Although some information is falsely presented, most of it is reported in a factually accurate fashion.
When he called out CNN for fake news it was for treating that fake Russian "dossier" as true. Did they? That's not what I saw CNN do. Please enlighten me.
I believe some of the things on your list are true, in fact I believe they've been proved to be true Yes, I know. Some people believe Donald Trump paid hookers to pee on a bed. Belief is insufficient. When pressed in the Birther thread, your evidence wasn't really up to much, in my view. Why is the evidence against Trump's actions, as reported by 'Mainstream media' worse than the evidence presented against Obama? Since I'm not likely to persuade you that some of those claims against Obama are false, show me why the Trump's claims have less foundation than that.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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Wow, even one in China Two things Faith: 1) Pyongyang is the capital of North Korea. Kim Jong-il makes an appearance in it, if that wasn't clue enough. 2) It wasn't in China or Korea. It is a video from Reason.tv - American libertarians - who mashed the kids singing with imagery from North Korea to make their point. School teachers from one school being dumb is one thing - can you imagine it Trump had teenage girls do a song and dance routine at one of his rallies with lyrics like
quote: Well its OK though, because Trump didn't pay them, or give them their opportunity to sell the merchandise, and even slapped them with a gag order. I believe their position was that Trump 'stiffed' them. So that's cool, right?
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I did think everyone would be at least superficially aware of the language in the email if nothing else, and wouldn't dispute its strangeness. quote: I highlighted the one email among many that is typically mentioned as being weird. Most of the conversation is clearly about....pizza. Another email had bold html tags, so they got highlighted too.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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3 young girls for entertainment. Children are entertaining - especially when they are going nuts in a pool. No pizza or cheese code here, I notice.
Cos we all play dominoes on food items. I do many activities on food items. I code on coffee. I've played pool on way too much pizza. This person was expecting pasta and received a lot of cheeses in a box as a gift:
quote: A pizza-related map on a handkerchief, wtf? Clearly a reference to a secret map to a child abuse den. Or maybe the person was organising a pizza party and drew a map on a handkerchief. Or maybe the map was a separate item entirely, that the handkerchief was wrapped around or placed upon. Nah, probably child abuse code, right? Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I know of no adults who would ever describe the presence of children at a party as "entertaining." And I'm sure you don't either. No, I know of plenty of adults that would describe children this way, both sincerely and ironically. I think you are falling victim to one of the tactics of fake news: priming. You were primed to read these emails in a lascivious way. You don't even seem to raise an eyebrow and things like a) If I was going to arrange the abuse of children, I wouldn't email a huge list of people their full names and ages so they can be identified. b) If I had a system of secret codes - it seems strange that I'd just drop the code like this. Why not talk about 7inch, 9inch and 11 inch pizzas or something here?
I don't understand why you are going to such lengths to rationalize something that is so clearly weird as children singing adulatory songs about a President. I don't understand why you think me calling something dumb and criticizing Trump for doing it as well as the teachers who did it would be 'rationalizing' it. It's the exact opposite: it's condemning it. Furthermore describing the teachers as 'being dumb' is hardly going to 'such lengths', is it? I think you are reading what you expect me to say, not what I actually said. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I'm sure you noticed that I made no statements regarding anything being evidence of a satanic child sex ring. I'm sure you noticed I didn't accuse you of thinking they were evidence of anything.
You, however, seem desperate to dismiss them. Desperate? I simply replied to your post with counterpoints.
You often uber in some young girls for entertainment at your parties do you? I have taxied children around - you'll note they weren't using Uber but another friend/family member was driving them to a friend and family party. Yes - I've done that - kids aren't very good drivers in my experience and typically asking them to walk gets frowny faces.
How many party invites have you received where young girls were sold as the entertainment? Quite a few family and friends get togethers highlight such and such kids will be there.
Children are entertaining but it is certainly weird for them to be considered the entertainment. They weren't billed as 'the entertainment'.
I'm guessing you don't often ask people whether they think you'd be a better pool player on pizza or burgers though. Yeah, actually, I have. Maybe not playing pool - but various activities in the past yes, I have. I typically champion the power of curry for my card game nights - except poker where I feel I play optimally with chocolate hobnobs. If they weren't available I might jokingly ask if I could perform on Custard Creams.
You aren't normally an arrogant, condescending prick Mod. What gives? I was sarcastically dismissing nonsense. Sorry if that comes across as arrogant or condescending. Are you saying that these *are* evidence of a child sex ring? Speaking of condescending and arrogant:
quote: All you seem to be saying is that if you can imagine some innocent way of interpreting the emails they must be innocent. I don't see any reason to suppose they are evidence of a child sex ring - and will mock those that do.
Why are you so desperate to dismiss the possibility that there is something going on here? I'm not, I can just see absurd trolling and laugh at those that fall for it. I mean the original source for the child abuse link here is 4chan - home of the trolls for Pete's sake. There is the possibility that any given email could be secret code for something else - but that doesn't mean one should give it serious consideration unless there is actual reason to suspect it.
I'm sure many parents dismissed the possibility that their priest was molesting their children. I'm sure many mothers have dismissed the possibility that their partner was abusing their children. Indeed. But the clues aren't typically in emails arranging pizza and pool parties.
I'm not so eager to dismiss the possibility of an elite child abuse ring. Nor am I. I insist that such child abuse rings exist. I am not desperate, however, to interpret someone talking about a handkerchief and a pizza related map as evidence of a child abuse ring. Because that's absurd.
You know people of all types are capable of being pedophiles, even police. What exempts the wealthy people who have the best chance of getting away with it? Nothing. But it would be ridiculous to propose a specific group of wealthy people were a child abuse ring based on the evidence presented. I actually worked as part of a volunteer group who would identify child porn rings, and report them to their ISP and to their local law enforcement. I can confirm 'cp' was used to codify 'child porn' but I should note that all the 'codes' used were designed to be understood by everybody while attempting to retain some degree of plausible deniability. Cheese Pizza was never used as it is meaningless. But hey, I never delved all that deeply into the world - maybe there is something to it. In which case, why would an elite child abuse ring use universal codes in their emails? Why not create their own codes so that random hackers/burglars/law enforcement wouldn't be alerted? That is the point of an elite child abuse ring, right? So no, nothing in the story makes sense as far as drawing from 'universal codes to introduce discussion of dangerous subjects with perfect strangers' or from the perspective of a 'private ring'. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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I know of no adults with or without children who would invite other adults to a party and feel the need to inform them that children will be there for their entertainment. The email doesn't say the children will be there for their entertainment. It says their presence will provide further entertainment {verbatim: have some further entertainment}. Children do have that effect at get-togethers.
We are not talking about people happening to find children entertaining, which of course they may, but they aren't invited to a party where children are offered as entertainment unless something really really strange is going on. Or the kids are entertainers. But they aren't being 'offered as entertainment' this is, as you say 'word magic'. Why email people's work emails with an invitation to at the very least, perve at kids? Why cc in a Washington Post journalist with a Pullitzer prize who writes an opinion piece? Why include an NPR journalist? Why send it from an official email address? Why provide personally identifiable information of the children? It seems a little more than complacency - sounds like the dumbest thing in the universe. Not the kind of thing I'd expect to see from an elite sex ring, let alone a child sex ring. It's weirder to me to think this is salacious.
I'm sure you know this, Mod, but as Riggamortis asked, why are you going to such lengths to try to make it seem normal when it simply is not? I'm not going to any particular lengths. Why are you asking innuendo laden questions like this? I don't care for any of the people in the email, I just think it's absurd to read child sex ring into these kinds of emails. Saying this hardly constitutes going to any lengths.
People finding these emails strange is not the fake news No, some people do find the emails strange. The fake news is the emails are strong indicators of a child sex ring, the central hub of which revolves around Comet Pizza who facilitates the rape of kids in their non-existent basement.
those denying it are the fake news. No, it is a fact that people are 'denying it' or rather, saying it's silly to read 'child sex ring' into the emails. That's actual news. Whether they are right or not does not make their existence or their opinions 'fake news'.
Yes it's odd it seems to be so out in the open but people do get complacent and take chances. Yes, emailing journalists to their work email address - an address that their colleagues, who work for a left wing newspaper and would love to spill the beans on a power-based child sex ring, could easily access - is beyond the pale for stupidity.
However odd that may be, the content is far odder. I think its odder that you read 'child sex ring' into these things. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given. Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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"Hot dogs waiting in a Jacuzzi" or something like that is another part of them. No, it isn't. I've searched the emails and found nothing like that. Infowars seemed to have run all the hot dog quotes and nothing to do with that on their site either. There were some 'Hot dog fridays', which is kind of banal.
Walnut sauce on a hot dog? Or pizza? It was on pasta. Which is also known by names such as Tagliatelle al pesto di noci. It's an Italian dish. Some people were bemused by the notion in the emails, others asked for the recipe after trying it. Not nefarious.
I also haven't spent a lot of time on the subject but as with pizzagate if I see something convincing enough to think more about I will. Meanwhile all the conservative sources are calling it bunk, he and his team have denied it and I think there is every reason to assume, until further notice, that it's just another of the thousands of plots against him. He could have protected himself against the worst of it by properly putting his business in the hands of a blind trust. Not in a trust of people that have their eyes open and their interests aligned. He could have released his tax returns, as even Hilary Clinton did. Unfortunately, if you aren't transparent when you have power and wealth - people are going to wonder why. And they'll dig to find those reasons. Sometimes their hits will prove to be misses, but there's a reason previous Presidents have acted in certain ways and that's to avoid this kind of criticism. Trump thinks he can weather this storm - he, and his supporters, can hardly complain if the seas are a bit choppy. Using Trump's own reasoning, there's something fishy afoot:
quote: Why doesn't he release his tax returns? There's something on those tax returns he doesn't like.
quote: He doesn't have honest taxes, or if he does, there's something in those returns that is very bad for him. Now somebody told me -- and I have no idea if this is bad for him or not, but perhaps it would be -- that where it says 'interests', it might have '$400 million dollars in Russian energy reserves'
quote: He didn't know he was running for president, so he told the truth. The entertainment company recorded what he said.... He said 'I did try and fuck her, she was married...When you’re a star they let you do it...Grab them by the pussy. You can do anything...'
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Your sarcastic dismissal of nonsense was directed at me and implied that I did think they were evidence. It was directed at the claims. If you believe the claims, then it was directed at you, but then your original protestations of dissociating from the claims fails. Take your pick.
You fired the first shot mate. But not at you, try to not take statements personally. I said children are entertaining, I do do activities 'on' foodstuffs and highlighted that the conspiracy from pizza related map and a handkerchief to child sex ring is laughably absurd. If you feel that is taking a shot at you, you should probably get off the internet for a while.
Since you have clearly concluded that the allegations are nonsense, I am compelled to ask how you came to that conclusion? I read them and noticed they were absurd. You don't think saying things like 'map' is a secret code word for semen is absurd? That 'cheese' should be taken as a secret codeword for little girls is ridiculous? That a private elite sex ring would use apparently common codewords of child porn sharing chatroom paedos is unbelievable? Did you read the leaked 'climategate' emails? If I told you that 'temperature' meant 'penis' and 'carbon' meant semen and 'data' meant 'young boys' would that be remotely credible as a claim to you? Or would I need to engage in some numerology and loose associations through an anonymous chat board before the burden shifts to you to prove its absurdity?
I agree. I take it you have looked into the deeper reasons why some people are giving it serious consideration? How long did you spend? 5,10,30 minutes? I read the original posts on 4chan and reddit that sparked the fake news fest back at the time of the growing hysteria. I read through Suspected Pedophile Ring Exposed Probably several hours of entertainment to be found there.
Or did you just google something like 'pizzagate debunked' and engage in a little confirmation bias? No. I also went to wikileaks and read the original emails, along with dozens upon dozens of others that were never mentioned. I didn't see anything all that strange.
It makes you feel superior, does it? Or is it just about trying to humiliate the person into accepting your opinions on the matter? Close. It's the same reason I mock people who believe in time cubed, that aliens shot Kennedy, that the earth is 6,000 years old and Jesus rode a dinosaur. Reason clearly doesn't work, and sometimes embarrassing people does make them work a little harder than they had previously been doing to justify their beliefs. Or sometimes they just question my motives and don't bother with doing any work themselves. Mostly this, unfortunately.
People aren't looking at a couple of emails in a vacuum and concluding that something sinister is going on, there's more to it than that. You would know that if you had bothered to look into it for yourself. I know, right? There's a picture of a freezer that's actually an underground kill room. There's a picture of a guy who owns a cafe bar called L'Enfants (named after Pierre Charles L'Enfant) wearing a J'adore L'Enfants T-shirt, who has been incorrectly identified as somebody else. There are logos, sex bracelets, kids playing ping pong. I mean the list is endless, right?
I'm not inclined to infiltrate a pedo group to verify whether or not it is a well known code or not. The code provides plausible deniability, if it is a code, it's working very well, no? Well....erm...no. Because a bunch random anonymous folk on 4chan and reddit 'figured it out' (without backing up their claims with evidence). Had they used a private code, which are trivial to concoct, they could have avoided this possibility. Or alternatively, the guys on 4chan would have generated a completely different and baseless code with which to troll the world.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined:
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I thought it was all the spinned up articles that are passing off opinion pieces as facts that, when you dig into the sources and find the real story, end up being so far off-base that there's no way that the original claim could even be true. That's just shitty and deceptive journalism. This election cycle there was an actual epidemic of fake news, mostly targeted against right wing people, with the appearance of attacking the left. People made lots of money writing obviously and ridiculously fake stories - certain conservatives particularly ate it up and became the primary audience. It's Onion level silliness, without the winky face. Fake news isn't real stuff that's exaggerated, or fabricated in details, or with deliberate lies or opinion masquerading as fact peppered in. It's completely fabricated nonsense. Here is some actual Fake News headlines: "Pope Francis forbids Catholics from voting for Hillary!" "Bill Clinton's sex tape just leaked!" Hillary Clinton In 2013: ‘I Would Like To See People Like Donald Trump Run For Office; They’re Honest And Can’t Be Bought.’ The idea was to create stories that would some plausible to people with low fact-checking skills so they would share them on social media, with click-bait headlines, as a means for people to make quick and easy money through ad-revenue. Some Macedonian teenagers were making thousands a week from the industry described as something of a 'gold rush'. The promise of easy money, escalated the issue - and the scandal became even greater when Facebook's algorithms picked up on the popularly shared newsy articles and started sharing them automatically to those that they thought would be interested, magnifying the effect. Those that took part in the gold rush said they ran some stories designed to attract the left wing loonies, but found they were shared less and made less money, so the primary focus was on headlines that appealed to the base instincts of the credulous portion of the right - particularly Trump supporters. Other nations were targeted too, in some part due to the American market for fake news was being saturated. Russian State sponsored media outlets started to get in on the industry, although IIRC their stories were a little less absurd than the Macedonian trolls, fuelling more concerns against the Trump-Russia issue. Trump was clearly unhappy about the emerging actual news stories that many of his supporters were gullible dupes and that he was being aided by Russian propaganda, and seemed to adopt the tactic of changing the discussion by accusing actual established media sources of being Fake News on the grounds he thought, or wanted others to think, the stories were false - hoping, quite rightly, those same gullible dupes would fall for it. And here we are.
The hoaxes are just pure lies, but those aren't coming from the mainstream liberal media. Their fake news isn't pure lies, it's just spun so far that it looses touch. But that's just Business as Usual for media of all stripes - ie., that's just 'News', typically served with 'media spin'. Calling that 'Fake News' dilutes the term.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Well, it's difficult to find the original stories as many of the sites have removed the original runs at this time. However, some remnants are out there.
"Pope Francis forbids Catholics from voting for Hillary!" "Bill Clinton's sex tape just leaked!" Hillary Clinton In 2013: ‘I Would Like To See People Like Donald Trump Run For Office; They’re Honest And Can’t Be Bought.’
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
The story was: Some guy got charged with raping two women and did not spend one day in prison. There was a fairly famous case of a guy who was charged with raping two women and only spent one day in prison after making a plea deal. His name is John Enochs - you can google the story yourself to see if it was the one that your liberal friend was talking about. Caused quite the outrage at the time.
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