Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response

Pictures may be worth a 1000 words, but sometimes a 1000 words are just not enough Interesting chart RAZD, but I am skeptical of its claims. I get the basic premise, that our fears are misplaced, but for those numbers to be zero... just seems unrealistic. For example, we fought a war with Iraq during that time frame and certainly some of their citizens killed Americans. Likewise in Somalia and Syria. The Sudanese government was held responsible for the attack on the USS Cole in 2000 where 17 US sailors died. I seem to remember there was some situation with Yemen attacking a military base or ship around that same time where soldiers died.Maybe they are qualifying the numbers with something like "Number of Americans killed on American soil" but the heading doesn't say that. Maybe these are numbers for refugees, but if that's the case, then Saudi Arabia's numbers seem high - since the 911 hijackers were not refugees. Maybe they exclude military operations and only count civilians killed?Maybe you could provide the source and clear up what those numbers actually mean...HBD

14th Ammendment:

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No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

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Source: Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rightsUnless you want to try and argue that non-citizens (illegal or legal) are not actually 'persons', then the Constitution is pretty clear that even illegal aliens have the Constitutional right to due process and equal protection under the laws of the United States.

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"Aliens," legal and illegal, have the full panoply of constitutional protections American citizens have with three exceptions: voting, some government jobs and gun ownership

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The U.S. Supreme Court settled the issue well over a century ago. But even before the court laid the issue to rest, a principal author of the Constitution, James Madison, the second president of the United States, wrote: "that as they [aliens], owe, on the one hand, a temporary obedience, they are entitled, in return, to their [constitutional] protection and advantage."

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The problem as I see it with Trump's order (other than it being vague and misplaced) is that it has the potential of depriving those who have been granted legal access into the country of their due process. So there are those who are showing up at the airport, on US soil, with legal documentation and are being detained and removed or potentially removed without their due process rights being respected. That, in my opinion, is what is illegal about the order and what the former acting Attorney General objected to.ABE: What I think would have been more appropriate is to order that new visa applications be halted for a period of time (which is actually what Obama did in his action that is being compared to this action). It may be an appropriate and necessary step to ensure that our process for determining who comes into our country is sound and provides us the best possible protection. However, targeting Muslim countries that have no record of killing US citizens in the country doesn't seem like the best approach. It is simply fear and prejudice driven. /ABEHBDEdited by herebedragons, : No reason given.

It seems to me that Trump thinks he should be able to run the country like he runs his business - like he owns them and that his word and will are paramount. He is used to having his way in his companies and expects the country to work like that as well. Unfortunately, it will probably be that those who oppose him will be Democrats and "liberals" and so opposition will appear to be strictly partisan. However, I sure hope that Republicans will recognize his recklessness and bullying and oppose him as well. But it appears he is loading his administration up with 'Yes' men who think like he does.HBD

Nothing here but fear and hate, Faith. That's how we are supposed to live? SMH

Forgive me... for what? Not hating Islam? For not living in fear?For believing every human being deserves to be treated with love and dignity even if they belong to an "evil" religion?For not holding Nationalism as a higher priority than human beings?For thinking we can provide security and safety for our country, but do it in a sane and honorable way?For being a moderate Republican and not a right-wing conservative?What exactly does God need to forgive me for, Faith?HBD

What does that have to do with anything I said? I am no fan of Obama, although I had a lot of respect for the way he left office and turned over the reigns of power.But as someone pointed out already, when Obama "acted like an autocrat", he was the evil, godless, Muslim loving heathen; but when Trump does it, he is God's own hand ushering Jesus back into the White House.I am not a partisan politizar. I could care less about what party one is affiliated with and simple do my best to call a spade a spade. So don't think that because I think Trump is dangerous means I am defending Obama or any other political figure. It is simply what I believe to be the truth about Trump, not my political affiliation.May God forgive me for not approving of his chosen savior :sarcasm: (since Trump is not God's Anointed One)HBD

This must be one of those "alternate facts" you like so much.The 14th Amendment is clear that ALL 'persons' within the jurisdiction of the United States have the protection of the Constitution and cannot be denied due process.I presented the evidence using this link Yes, illegal aliens have constitutional rights complete with Supreme court rulings

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In Wong Win v. United States (1896), the court ruled that:

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It must be concluded that all persons within the territory of the United States are entitled to the protection by those amendments [Fifth and Sixth] and that even aliens shall not be held to answer for a capital or other infamous crime, unless on presentment or indictment of a grand jury, nor deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

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The matter was settled over 100 years ago!If you believe that not to be true, please present your evidence of that. Perhaps some court rulings. That's not the claim. The claim is that when persons who have been granted legal access to enter the country arrive in the US, they are being denied due process and being turned away.HBD

SO if this is completely true, what do you suggest? Do you suggest that the US should begin discriminating against people - even its own citizens - on the basis of religion (only Islam of course, not all religions- unless there are other religions that you feel threatened by)? Should we make laws that outlaw the practice of certain religious institutions (such as the hijab)?Would that make the U.S. great again?What is your solution? They are coming to get us, Faith ... stopping new migrants from entering the country is not enough... there is already 3.3 million Muslims in the country right now. How do we stop them from taking over our country? Should we prevent anyone of the Muslim faith from holding public office? Cause that seems like a good way for them to gain influence over our country.Let's hear what you would propose to do about this problem.HBD

My personal opinion or position on Islam or the Koran is completely irrelevant. This is the United States of America, and here we do not discriminate on the basis of religious affiliation - even religious positions that are vile and repulsive. You surely don't want to begin discriminatory practices based on religion do you? Because I am sure there are people that would love to open that can of worms and rid this country of ALL the religions they find deplorable.So regardless of my or your opinion of Islam, and regardless of how wrong and evil it may or may not be, we cannot discriminate based on a person's association with that religion - again to remind you... this is the United States of America and we have very clear provisions for freedom of religion in our Constitution.We can however, ban evil ideologies. Killing people who disagree with your religious views is an ideology we can reject -independent of the religious institution that holds such an ideology.The ideology that women are property and should have no rights except what her husband grants her can be rejected. Our laws and Constitution grants that women have rights equal to that of men (of course we are still working out some of what that means). Yes, we can reject that ideology.BUT, we cannot discriminate against persons because they are associated with a religion that has those ideologies (whether Islam does or does not have those ideologies is not my point).All you are really doing is trying to incite hatred towards a particular group of people. Stop. It is very un-Christian like. Opposing certain ideologies is not wrong, and is probably a good thing in most cases; but as has been pointed out, not all Muslims have those ideologies that you associate with Islam.HBD

By "honest" you mean "agrees with you", right. Then I suppose, no, there is no "honest" assessment here. To get the "honest" assessment you are looking for you are going to need to go to a forum with more ultra-right conservatives than frequent here. Maybe the Anti-Islam Alliance. You should get some good "honest" assessments over there.HBD

So you do in fact advocate discrimination based on religious beliefs - not just in who to admit into the country, but even against those who are already here legally. That's what will make America great again?Your assessment of my Christian values is meaningless to me. I am not arguing that Islam is a "good" or "benign" religion, but fear and hate is antithetical to Christian teachings and I won't give in to fear and hate.HBD

Ditto I said I will not hate and fear Muslims because of their religion and that the United States Constitution forbids discrimination against peoples because of their religious affiliation.Now suggesting that I love evil is very disingenuous. Right, you want to deny Muslim from entering the country and deny those that live here freedom because you love them.HBD