|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Should Canada and the U.S. tolerate an intolerant Islam? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
As long as we're going to abandon one of our national core values What core value is that?Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Certainly what's written isn't "Give me your wicked, your bigoted, your religious fundamentalists yearning to subjugate the World to theocratic rule based on the violent teachings of a seventh-century warlord, pedophile, etc."
Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Is it worth it to let Muslims into Western lands?
The only way to answer that is to do a cost-benefit analysis of the situation. We've already heard of the potential costs, so maybe we can look at the benefits. So, what are the benefits of Islam? Edited by Jon, : No reason given. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member
|
You won't change Islam by letting the victims of Islamism who do not want to support or live under such extreme Islamism - drown. Are they? Or are they themselves perpetrators who just happen to be dissatisfied with who won/is winning the battle? Remember our Islam and Multiculturalism threads? How many British Muslims want Saudi-Arabia-style Sharia? How many deplore homosexuality? Is it that they don't want to live under extreme Islam, or just that they don't want to live under someone else's extreme Islam but instead under their own?
Fuck off. I really feel bad for the children. The ones who will grow up to be indoctrinated into a culture of down-right evil that subjugates women, hates freedom and progress, a completely crippled culture with no hope of finding itself at peace with the world of secular enlightenment. At the same time, we have to look at reality and admit what these children will become so long as the culture of Islam liveswhat some may already be. We don't need to go killing kids, but we also shouldn't feel responsible for what their culture does to them.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
By telling a hunter he can shoot his desired prey (deer) but a Klansman that he cannot shoot his (black people) you are discriminating against the latter.
Now what the fuck is your point? Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member
|
You can move those goal posts all you want, Mod, it doesn't change reality or what's already been said.
Your initial claim was that the folks flocking to Europe "... do not want to support or live under such extreme Islamism". To which I replied that many do, just not the exact version as being practiced. To which you responded by changing general "extreme Islamism" to "extreme Islamism of ISIS " which, of course, agrees with what I said: the folks don't want to live under ISIS's extreme Islamism - but many do want to live under some version of extreme Islamism. And it is none but the blind who fail to see that it is this general attitude of Middle Eastern Muslims that is behind so much of the violence in the region: it's a mash-up of extremist ideologies fighting for power with each one subjugating the others in its turn. ISIS rules today; some other may rule in the future.
Not sure what difference it makes, to be honest. Well, that's the topic of this thread: should we be welcoming intolerant Islam into the West. There are two ways of welcoming Islam, conversion or immigration. We're talking about the latter.
Yes. You tried to find reasons to paint Muslims as intrinsically bad and you resisted any efforts to discuss the reasons why we're in the current climate and what we can do to have the best possible future. Huh? I don't think Muslims are intrinsically bad. They are human beings who have the same potential to be good, honorable, and compassionate as all other human beings. Islam seems to do a good job suppressing these potentials; hence this thread and the several others on the same topic.
Is it that they don't want to live under extreme Islam, or just that they don't want to live under someone else's extreme Islam but instead under their own? Does it matter? Yes, because: this thread.
Tell me - would you rather they were educated in Syria by ISIS or in Sweden by the State school system? Which outcome is more likely to fulfil your prophecy of these kids growing up into a life of extemism? Then let Sweden educate the kids. Their parents can stay in Syria.
That doesn't change the notion that we should be nice people who try and help civilians fleeing a warzone. It does if we have good reason to believe those civilians are bringing the warzone with them - or even just the mentality that is largely responsible for it. There are ways to help that don't involve inviting extremist nutjobs into our borders. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
These people have no right to flee? I never said people haven't a right to flee. What I have said is we have no obligation to receive such folks and should, given what we know of Muslims in the region be very cautious about importing extreme radicalism of the kind the West has already fought enough wars to get rid of in its own borders.
Today's New York Times (ISIS Wives and Enforcers in Syria Recount Collaboration, Anguish and Escape) describes a pre-ISIS Syria with many progressive and westward-looking residents, e.g.:
quote: That, of course, is just an anecdote. If we look at actual evidence (surveys of what people believe) we find things like this bit that Mod kindly pointed out long ago but has been doing a good job of forgetting:
quote: Middle-Eastern Muslims are by and large fundamentalists of a nature that makes our own Christian fundamentalists look like kittens. It's not unreasonable to want to keep their crap out of the West. Edited by Jon, : No reason given.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Don't go there ringo; remember how stupid you looked last time trying to make that comparison?
Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
The refugees dying in their thousands is more carnage than terrorists have managed to inflict on us in decades of earnest attempts. Indeed. Folks dismissive of Islam's intolerance regularly fail to see that those most affected by it are Muslims.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
It was shown that your argument makes no sense. It only works if we consider immigrant Muslims as analogous to incoming Europeansi.e., as invaders. And if we view Muslim immigrants this way, our reasons for refusing them entry are even greater.
Meanwhile, I stand by my statement: the immigrants who should have been kept out were us. Obviously anyone who goes on the Internet and argues that events responsible for their existence should never have taken place is only passing time between bowel movements. Why should anyone take your nonsense seriously?Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Why is that surprising?
Certainly you don't think it is the West's job to save all these folks from their own ideological nightmare? At some point you're no longer helping but merely enabling.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
So, they agree with the death penalty just like many of their counterparts in the west do. As John Oliver said (paraphrased), "whether you are stoning people to death, boiling them alive, or having them put to sleep by a cute puppy dressed as Winnie the Pooh, you are still getting the same result." I'm anti-death penalty, yet I can understand those people who advocate for this to remain as a penalty. I do not agree with them, but I understand where they are coming from. Oh stop. The death penalty is barbaric enough as it is without having it carried out on people simply for their sleeping around or being gay.
How much radicalism have we "imported" into our country through accepting refugees...I wonder if someone happened to run the actual numbers. Did you read the other threads? And the topic here isn't just about 'refugees'.
If you think that radicalized individuals are going to wait the, on average, three years to arrive in this country with refugee status when other options (student visa, tourist visas, or asylum) are available that have a small amount of vetting compared to attempting for refugee status, then I think you have swallowed the fear politicians are selling far too readily. The topic here isn't just about 'refugees'. Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
Jon writes: The topic here isn't just about 'refugees'. Threads go many places, of course, but the primary focus of the OP was Muslim immigration: I know; which is why I said this thread isn't just about 'refugees'.Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member
|
This thread also isn't just about terrorism.
Love your enemies!
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Jon Inactive Member |
I am not going to answer a loaded question that is artificially narrow in its scope.
I will address the broader issue, though, by telling you that my concern is with permitting folk into the West through any avenue of entry who are likely to spread intolerance, which would include acts of terrorism but is by no means limited to acts of terrorism. Love your enemies!
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024