|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Catholics are making it up. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
And yet you didn't say anything at all about inclusive humanism. ringo writes:
Im not afraid at all. Jesus promoted inclusive humanism. Why are you afraid to discuss that? Try again. "Jesus promoted inclusive humanism." Discuss."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
Limbo is not abolished. Christ forgives all sins. You were catechized?
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
Everything is wrong here. Francis granted an exemption from celibacy to Amazonian priests because of difficulty having priests there.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
SoC writes:
It was effectively canned in 2007 in "The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die without Being Baptized." Which concluded that
Limbo is not abolished. quote: It then waffles on about not actually knowing anything at all - ie it's Catholics making stuff up - but the effect was to kill Limbo dead in the developed world.
You were catechized? I bloody hope not. I was, however baptised and confirmed if that's any help. Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
SoC writes: Everything is wrong here. Francis granted an exemption from celibacy to Amazonian priests because of difficulty having priests there. He also allowed married Anglican in the UK to become RC priests. Because, guess what, the UK is desperately short of priests after the revolting global child abuse scandals. So yeh, priests are no longer required to be celibate, just a matter of convenience.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Don't get glib with me. The topic is open. You wont get away with dismissing Christianity as a Fairy Tale being a default position and I dont care which Forum we are at. Forget about that fairy tale. Talk about reality. I've heard several voices at once come out of a guy. I had two witnesses with me. You cant convince me that these stories are fairy tales, nor should you even have that as a motive. And I know that you mock the apologists, but William Lane Craig was one of the better ones and he said:quote: I will admit that you folks at EvC are better than average at demolishing apologetic arguments, but to use the one about evidence and that absence of evidence equating to evidence of absence wont fly in this argument. It is not up to my side to support the positive truth claim. That's a weak argument. If anything, both sides bare a burden of proof to some degree. ringo writes: This is a perfect example of a claim which requires more than parroting mythicist arguments and secular scholars with no ax to grind. Perhaps the Bible enjoyed a free pass for years until these debunkers came along and sharpened their arguments (and I would argue their ax'es) but atheism is not the default. Get off your hobby horse and grow a pair.
Why would I want to discredit somebody who never existed? ringo writes:
That's easy.
Point out the false logic.ringo writes: Nonsense. I may not hand out as much spare change as you do, but I help clothe, feed, and encourage as many folks on a daily basis as do you guys. Where we differ is that you claim that the messenger (the very Son of the Living God) is unimportant and that atheist secular humanists can actually do a better job taking care of needy people than can many if not most of the believers. Sadly, you may have a point on this one. jar used to argue against the excuse that was made that the perps were not really true Christians, but I would allow that one in court due to the belief that people are born fallen and that there are far too many lukewarm believers which give the sold out believers a bad rap.
But you're the one who throws out the Bible.ringo writes: I dont think so. Shall I use the book or will you say that the book itself is a fairy tale whenever it suits your purpose yet accuse me of not following that same book when it suits your arguments? We've been in the "last days" for two thousand years. Isn't that fairy tale getting a bit tired by now?2 Peter 3:3-7 writes: First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5 But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6 By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7 By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. And that brings up another common one used here at EvC: Examining the Bible honestly in order to determine the compilation of books actual purpose and meaning. We can get to that.
ringo writes: Try again. "Jesus promoted inclusive humanism." Discuss. I will be honest with you regarding this one. I began examining the evidence(The Bible itself) in order to refute your claim and uphold the claim of the exclusiveness of Christ What I ended up finding was that Jesus did promote inclusive humanism. One could argue, however, that He did want people to follow Him and that His way was exclusive when it came to belief yet inclusive when it came to actions and works. But thats another argument regarding Johns Redactors.The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.Calvin Coolidge "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain " As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith - You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do. Anne Lamott I Have Strong Arguments Which I Cant Say To You~CG
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
Its not a matter of convenience.
Limbo is not abolished. Stop with the misinformation
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
|
SoC writes: Limbo is not abolished. Not only is it abolished the Vatican tells us it actually never existed. It was always just a 'hypothesis'. You have to laugh.
quote: The Hope of Salvation for Infants Who Die Without Being BaptisedJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
that's not limbo. limbo is the old word for purgatory, which still exists in catholic dogma. the official church position on infants was never given. no catholic claims to know what happens to souls when we die, but we do believe in heaven, hell, and purgatory. purgatory is brought up probably once a month at mass. most go to purgatory, even Catholics, where we have to pay for our sins, until we're allowed into heaven. purgatory is a place of torture and yes it is still believed in by the catholic faithful and affirmed by the pope.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
why is it not surprising that a cradle catholic has no idea what his belief system is (op)?
but to have the hutzpa to recycle misinformed garbage and continue to believe it, wow. the pope in special circumstances has allowed priests to serve without being celibate. celibacy is central to the catholic faith in its position on priesthood. however, the church has always allowed men who were married to become priests. in instances where there are not enough priests there must be ways to have mass and carry out the sacraments. celibacy is important to francis and pope benedict. our priests are married to the church. there was a time in the church when there were no celibate priests. certain traditions do change. Christ's position on divorce is clear. pope francis instituted a year of mercy which helped usher in a year of remittance of sins by Christ, the church does evolve as Christ speaks to us. The Divine Mercy Apostolate is an example of a recent addition to the catholic church. although Divine Mercy was always doctrinal and gospel truth, Jesus gave Saint Faustina a special directive to send souls to Our Lord of Divine Mercy before the apocalypse. research the church. you'll find a lot of these "controversies" are bunk. there has never been a religion surrounded by so much misinformation. nothing claimed in this thread by tangle is legitimate. Edited by a servant of Christ, : No reason given.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
The topic is, "The CATHOLICS are making it up."
The topic is open. Phat writes:
I didn't do any such thing. I clearly said, "We've been in the "last days" for two thousand years. Isn't that fairy tale getting a bit tired by now?" Message 450 You wont get away with dismissing Christianity as a Fairy Tale.... Phat writes:
You're being dishonest. You know damn well that it's the same argument you use against the things you don't believe in.
It is not up to my side to support the positive truth claim. That's a weak argument. If anything, both sides bare a burden of proof to some degree. Phat writes:
I'm not parroting anything. I don't even know the scholars' arguments. ringo writes:
This is a perfect example of a claim which requires more than parroting mythicist arguments and secular scholars with no ax to grind. Why would I want to discredit somebody who never existed? And you didn't answer the question. What possible reason could I have for discrediting somebody who didn't exist? Do you have a reason to discredit Frodo?
Phat writes:
Yes it is. It is the default literally by definition.
... atheism is not the default. Phat writes:
Where does that come from?
Get off your hobby horse and grow a pair. Phat writes:
It has NOTHING to do with how much spare change you give out. It's about you throwing out the Bible. You throw out the part in Genesis 3 where God said as plain as day that "the Fall" was a GOOD thing. You throw out the part where Jesus told the rich man what he must do to be saved. You throw out the part where the Roman Church DID what Jesus told the rich man to do. You throw out the part where Jesus said that the judgement depends on what people DO for the least of His brothers. You throw out the part where He said that pretending to believe by mouthing, "Lord! Lord!" will not fool Him. Shall I go on? Or do you have the courage to defend your throwing out those passages?
ringo writes:
Nonsense. I may not hand out as much spare change as you do.. But you're the one who throws out the Bible.. Phat writes:
Nope. The false logic is obviously yours. You use the same logic as I'm using to deny the existence of leprechauns, etc.
ringo writes:
That's easy. Point out the false logic.Jesus likely never existed. (Burden of proof is on you.) Phat writes:
But you don't know the authors' motives. Even if it was evidence, it's evidence you don't have.
I argue that motive remains an important piece of evidence. Phat writes:
Try using your head first. How can you use a book that was written two thousand years ago to back up your claims about what has happened since the book was written?
ringo writes:
I dont think so. Shall I use the book...? We've been in the "last days" for two thousand years. Isn't that fairy tale getting a bit tired by now? Phat writes:
So, for somebody who doesn't have a clue - in your words - it seems like I know Jesus better than you do. That's because you've been swallowing the snake oil. I began examining the evidence(The Bible itself) in order to refute your claim and uphold the claim of the exclusiveness of Christ What I ended up finding was that Jesus did promote inclusive humanism."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 441 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
a Servant of Christ writes:
I just Googled "limbo abolished" and "purgatory abolished". Every major news service seems to agree that limbo has beeb abolished. Limbo is not abolished."I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Trump won  Suspended Member (Idle past 1269 days) Posts: 1928 Joined: |
fake news
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
SoC writes: that's not limbo. limbo is the old word for purgatory, which still exists in catholic dogma. No it's not. Limbo is the place unbaptised babies were supposed go if they died. Neither heaven nor hell but they could never get to heaven. Purgatory is supposed to be a time-limited, mini-hell used for atoning for 'venial sins'. A process of 'purification by torture.' Everybody goes there for a bit unless you are lucky enough to be hit by a bus exiting the confessional muttering your Hail Mary's. Mortal sins could not be atoned for - that's what hell is for - everlasting torture. You couldn't make it up - except those crazy, psychopathic Catholics did.
quote: Limbo - Wikipedia
quote: Purgatory - Wikipedia Of course the Catholic Church got extremely rich by selling indulgences to the wealthy so that they could get out of purgatory early; a sort of get out of jail card.
purgatory is brought up probably once a month at mass. most go to purgatory, even Catholics, where we have to pay for our sins, until we're allowed into heaven. purgatory is a place of torture and yes it is still believed in by the catholic faithful and affirmed by the pope. Yes, it's quite an evil idea isn't it? So much for the 'merciful Lord'Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Tangle Member Posts: 9514 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
|
SoC writes: why is it not surprising that a cradle catholic has no idea what his belief system is (op)? Yes, why do you do that? The Catholic teachings on Limbo, Purgatory and Hell have been there for centuries, how come you're still confused?
the pope in special circumstances has allowed priests to serve without being celibate. Therefore it's no longer a requirement that catholic priests are celibate is it?
celibacy is central to the catholic faith in its position on priesthood. however, the church has always allowed men who were married to become priests. in instances where there are not enough priests there must be ways to have mass and carry out the sacraments. celibacy is important to francis and pope benedict. our priests are married to the church. Correct, celibacy is now a matter of convenience. It wasn't so central after all was it? Unless, of course, you were one of the thousands of children raped by those 'celibates'.
certain traditions do change.
They sure do. You seem to be saying that things are changing whilst denying that anything is changing. It's a tough line to walk isn't it?
Christ's position on divorce is clear.
Haha. At one time the church's policy on divorce was very clear, it meant you couldn't do it for fear of excommunication. "what god has joined together let no man put asunder". Only the pope could annul a marriage and only in very special circumstances. He could do it because he was not 'no man', he was god's representative on earth. This meant that divorce was a practical impossibility. The pope even refused to allow king Henry VIII of England to remarry and as a result the Church of England and Anglicanism was created by him just so that he could. Bad move pope - didn't think it through. Still, back then the Catholic church was a political and power institution more than a religion. But divorce, like contraception - once an absolute no-no and a mortal sin worthy of everlasting damnation - modern life saw whole swathes of Catholics abandoning the religion because of it, the once totally intransigent divorce 'rules' had to be changed. So divorce is now devolved to your local priest.
quote: Pope reforms Catholic church’s marriage annulment process | Pope Francis | The Guardian So a process once so impossible that a king couldn't do it, is now so trivial that anybody can. Again, a matter of pragmatism and convenience
the church does evolve as Christ speaks to us. The church evolves because if it didn't change its mind on matters it once thought sacrosanct, it would lose all its followers in the educated world.
nothing claimed in this thread by tangle is legitimate. And yet I can point to chapter and verse. Odd that.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024