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Author Topic:   Fracking and Quaking
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 37 (755453)
04-08-2015 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
04-08-2015 12:46 AM


As far as I am aware, other areas in the U.S. where the practice of fracking has grown have not seen increases in earthquake frequency.
A quick google on the subject turns up lots of articles discussing a relationship between fracking and increased small earthquakes. I am not going to suggest that all of the articles are valid science, but I am curious about your claim not to have seen any increases in frequency. Have you decided that those claims are bogus or does "as far as I am aware" mean 'with an ostrich eye view I see nothing'.
I know my question seems fairly dismissive, but shouldn't this be something you would check before posting?

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jon, posted 04-08-2015 12:46 AM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Jon, posted 04-08-2015 2:49 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 37 (755470)
04-08-2015 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jon
04-08-2015 2:49 PM


Re: ND vs OK
I also recall a map that shows very little earthquake activity in the U.S. outside the usual zones (California, for example), except that in Oklahoma the frequency of earthquakes, and their magnitude, has increased rapidly since the introduction of heavy fracking in the state.
The map you provided does not show increases in activity. It just shows total earthquake activity from 2008-2012. Is the indicated activity for say Ohio or Texas normal or is it fracking enhanced? Is the activity shown for Wyoming normal? Your map gives no fracking basis for reaching a conclusion.
I figured EvC is a better place to explore the issue in more depth than to hopelessly hunt for news clippings.
A cursory search will turn up reports of fracking related earthquakes in Ohio, Texas, and Oklahoma. I suppose that since this is a discussion group, you might just as well ask as to do the slightest bit of homework on your own.
At any rate, here is a relevant gubmit comment on the issue
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/induced/
quote:
A team of USGS scientists led by Bill Ellsworth analyzed changes in the rate of earthquake occurrence using large USGS databases of earthquakes recorded since 1970. The increase in seismicity has been found to coincide with the injection of wastewater in deep disposal wells in several locations, including Colorado, Texas, Arkansas, Oklahoma and Ohio. Much of this wastewater is a byproduct of oil and gas production and is routinely disposed of by injection into wells specifically designed and approved for this purpose.
Hydraulic fracturing, commonly known as fracking, does not appear to be linked to the increased rate of magnitude 3 and larger earthquakes.
Note that the government is saying what others have said: that the primary culprit is oil and gas production. Fracking has some effect but tends to be associated with smaller seismic activity.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Jon, posted 04-08-2015 2:49 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Jon, posted 04-08-2015 5:23 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 23 of 37 (755557)
04-09-2015 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Jon
04-08-2015 11:58 PM


Reading the article a bit more closely...
According to this site, the injection of wastewater is "similar" in North Dakota, which has not been hit by anything approaching Oklahoma's level of quake activity.
Jon,
As has been discussed, fracking also involves waste water but in smaller amounts. The article you linked to is about fracking and indicates a tenuous or no link between earthquakes and fracking. The article discusses earthquakes of magnitudes of less than 3 being associated with fracking. Or maybe not associated if the article is to be believed.
In short, the article does not bring up any controversy with the stuff already posted here. I'll also note that the article is about what does not on in Oklahoma. So it is no help with showing an anomaly with things not happening in North Dakota if the oil production there is primarily fracking.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Jon, posted 04-08-2015 11:58 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Jon, posted 04-09-2015 3:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 37 (755626)
04-10-2015 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Jon
04-09-2015 3:35 PM


Re: Reading the article a bit more closely...
What's different about the operations in ND?
An answer to this question has been given several times in this thread including in my own post. Water is pumped under ground both during fracking and during more conventional drilling, but the volume of wastewater disposal in conventional drilling dwarfs the water in fracking operations.
When similar is used in the article you refer to, did that say anything about the volume compared to conventional drilling? No. All that is said is that a similar operation is carried out. Therefore it does not contradict the answer you've been given repeatedly.

Je Suis Charlie
Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Jon, posted 04-09-2015 3:35 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Jon, posted 04-10-2015 10:17 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 37 (781050)
03-30-2016 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Hyroglyphx
03-30-2016 1:20 AM


Re: Fracking
The only real problem with fracking is because the technology has increased so that you can get at it horizontally
There are plenty more problems with fracking even if earthquakes do not turn out to be one of the problems. Disposing of the wastewater is one problem. Despite what petrophysics says, one method of disposal is pumping into underground wells.
StackPath
quote:
In many regions of the US, including Texas, North Dakota and Montana, deep-well underground injection is a popular method for the disposal of fracking fluids and other substances from shale oil and gas extraction operations. Pennsylvania however, outlawed the use of deep-well injection some time ago.
Another problem is that fracking consumes huge amounts of freshwater that is extremely difficult to reclaim. In NC it is illegal to even reveal the chemicals that might be in fracking water used in the state. Radioactivity can be a concern if there is radioactive material in the local geology.
quote:
Once the fracking is done, much of the water comes back up the well as flowback wastewater. Along with it comes bacteria and characteristics of the geologic formation, including minerals, radioactive materials and oil and gas.
We also need to do a better job at demystifying it, because while there are plenty of legitimate complaints, there's also a lot of myth when it comes to it.
Probably correct. But those myths are held and promulgated by both advocates and objectors. It is not clear that the use of shell gas using current technology has a net positive effect on greenhouse warming. Methane is a highly potent green house gas and fracking seems to be associated with lots of leaking of methane to the atmosphere. And of course burning methane produces, produces carbon dioxide as does burning every hydrocarbon.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-30-2016 1:20 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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