This is from Romans 3.
quote:
9 What shall we conclude then? Are we any better ? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; 11 there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God. 12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one." 13 "Their throats are open graves; their tongues practice deceit." "The poison of vipers is on their lips." 14 "Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 ruin and misery mark their ways, 17 and the way of peace they do not know." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. 20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
As I said earlier the law was a Jewish thing which was a foreshadowing of the message of Christ. In the last line Paul is saying that the point of the law was to provide a pointer in the right direction and the understanding that there is such a thing as right and wrong and that it really does matter.
This is from Romans 10
quote:
4 Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. 5 Moses describes in this way the righteousness that is by the law: "The man who does these things will live by them." 6 But the righteousness that is by faith says: "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 "or 'Who will descend into the deep?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming:
The faith that Paul is talking about isn’t about giving intellectual assent to the deity of Christ, but is about having a heart that loves the message of peace, love, forgiveness and charity that Jesus espoused.
purpledawn writes:
Even though no law is a means to salvation, that doesn't mean that mankind can do away with their legal systems.
Absolutely. There is no real connection between the two in my view. As Jesus said, render unto Caesar what is Caesar. We are meant to have organized communities.
purpledawn writes:
Do you understand the point I'm making concerning Paul?
Paul didn't claim that Christ's death abolished any commandments or ordinances.
Paul claimed that Christ's death redeemed them from the Curse of the Torah, not the Torah.
Yes and no IMHO. I think we have to read the Torah through the lens of the Gospels. The point is that the followers of Jesus are supposed to enact the world that God desires us to have. That would be the world we everyone truly does love their neighbour as themselves and thus there is no need for any law. Love of God and neighbour fulfills all the laws and when we look at much of what is in the Torah we can see that what was there has nothing to do with loving God or neighbour and we can either decide that God only wanted that for a time or that it was a human invention. In my view it is the latter as it represents what is still true in our lives today, in that sometimes we get it right and other times not so much.
So I agree that Christ’s death didn’t abolish the commandments but simply put them in context. It isn’t about what we do, but about the motivation of our hearts that results in what we do.
He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8
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