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Author Topic:   Un-conversion
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(2)
Message 4 of 76 (658598)
04-06-2012 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
04-06-2012 4:47 PM


Easy answer: you were never a true believer/true christian.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 04-06-2012 4:47 PM Tangle has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 30 of 76 (658663)
04-07-2012 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by GDR
04-07-2012 7:12 PM


Re: Such Certainty
And yet, you quote bible verses as though they mean something.
Strange.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

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 Message 29 by GDR, posted 04-07-2012 7:12 PM GDR has replied

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 64 of 76 (658782)
04-09-2012 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by GDR
04-09-2012 2:58 PM


Re: Planting?
If morality evolved from a non-intelligent non-moral first cause I would expect there to be a consistent result within humanity.
Mind explaining why you think this? It would seem (and this happens to jive with what we see) that since morality evolved along with us and is almost necessary in order to survive as a communal species, it is inevitably going to be different among different sorts of people.
However, if, as you seem to think, there is some moral ghost/being/whatever, wouldn't it go to say that morality would never change? Why the trial and error if this "ultimate moral being who is more moral than anything ever" not just provide the right morals from the get go and essentially hand homo-sapiens utopia on a silver platter?
A lot of times I read GDR's posts and think you're a pretty rational guy.
The rest of the time, I think you shoehorn your god guy in wherever you can because you reaaalllllllyyyy want him there.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by GDR, posted 04-09-2012 2:58 PM GDR has replied

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 Message 67 by GDR, posted 04-09-2012 3:28 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 66 of 76 (658784)
04-09-2012 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by dwise1
04-09-2012 3:18 PM


Re: Planting?
Maybe I'm reading something wrong, or something in me is askew, but how do you figure that morality is consistent among humanity in general?

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by dwise1, posted 04-09-2012 3:18 PM dwise1 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by dwise1, posted 04-09-2012 3:51 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 69 of 76 (658788)
04-09-2012 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by GDR
04-09-2012 3:28 PM


Re: Planting?
My contention is that morality has been consistent from the get go. People have always had the free will to choose that consistent morality or to reject it in favour of self-interest. If you are going to go back to quoting the OT and the instances of genocide and stoning then I would agree that that can't actually be of God in spite of their protestations that they were.
I don't need to reference a book I find to made of fairy tales, GDR. We can look to actual evidence to see that different groups of people have different standards of ethics/morality. It's not like they knew they were being immoral and chose otherwise: they actually thought what they were doing was right and just. I hate to trot out Buz, but look at how he trivializes slavery and says that "life was better for them here, as slaves". This is someone now, here, in the 21st century Imagine how slaveholders viewed it back then?
Are you saying the Mayans actually knew better, that they actually knew what they were doing was immoral but continued to do it anyways?
Are you telling me that cannibal tribes actually realize they are being immoral, but continue their traditions anyways?
Are you telling me that racists realize hating someone for the color of their skin is actually immoral, but continue doing it anyways?
So your idea that people just choose to be immoral as a whole doesn't jive with what we actually see. Yes, there are people who do choose to be immoral, but we don't judge entire civilizations and categorize their actions based on those individuals, now do we?

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

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 Message 67 by GDR, posted 04-09-2012 3:28 PM GDR has replied

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hooah212002
Member (Idle past 831 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 72 of 76 (658791)
04-09-2012 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by dwise1
04-09-2012 3:51 PM


Re: Planting?
Ok, I can see that as well. You just went much, much, more basic than I was thinking. Obviously, if we all didn't have some sort of the same (very basic) guidelines, we never would have thrived as a species. But once you get into any societal detail at all, it breaks down and moral guidelines are vastly different; as different as people are.

"Science is interesting, and if you don't agree you can fuck off." -Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by dwise1, posted 04-09-2012 3:51 PM dwise1 has not replied

  
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