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Author Topic:   Are we born to an evolutionary purpose?
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 3 of 32 (387132)
02-26-2007 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Neutralmind
02-26-2007 12:49 PM


Let's say a murderer. Maybe he's just killing people so there are not so many hostile "species" left to harm his family (therefore his genes will get passed on more likely)?
Could be a case made for it in some situations.
A rapist, maybe he's just increasing his chances of passing on his genes?
Yes, this is true.
A musician, musicians are known to to make people happier, a happy family is more likely to not kill each other and are also known to be more sexually active.
Indeed, an inate musical talent can be evolutionarily advantage. It might be nothing to do with physical genes but cultural memes of course.
My point is (if you didn't get it), anything can be ascribed to having an evolutionary purpose, but it just may not be that. Or can it?
Indeed. The point that kuresu and others (incl myself) that some things which seem on the face of it to run counter to the concept of selfish genes or 'survival of the fittest' (homosexuals would seem to pass on less genes than heterosexuals, on average) can still survive because of kin with similar genes who do reproduce more.
Is everything we do related to passing on our genes?
That's kind of the conclusion Freud came to. However, I think everything we do is rooted in genes, but that culture has a bigger impact on our actions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Neutralmind, posted 02-26-2007 12:49 PM Neutralmind has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Neutralmind, posted 02-26-2007 4:02 PM Modulous has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 11 of 32 (387188)
02-26-2007 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Neutralmind
02-26-2007 4:02 PM


They can or may survive, but wouldn't heterosexual men have a better chance of survival anyway?
The point is to illustrate that it isn't individuals that are major concern, but the survival of the genes. Genes can (and do) exist in familial groupings. Think of sterile insects - they never survive to reproductive age, yet they thrive. They thrive because they defend/build shelter for/feed/etc the reproductive members of their close family.
If we assume now for the sake of argument, that people are born gay or straight. Why would gay guys even be born if there is so much less chance that they're genes will get passed on? What evolutionary advantage (considering passing on genes) do gay men have over straight? Why/how would natural selection even come/end up with that?
That's the point really in a nutshell. One cannot argue that homosexuality would be selected against without knowing everything about homosexuality. There is one paper which has noted that siblings of gay men have a greater fecundity (produce more offspring). The genes of the homosexual men are not passed on by them reproducing (necessarily), but instead their siblings pass on their genes (which are about 50% the same).
Giving birth to a homosexual child, could be a trade off for the rest of your children being more reproductively active.
I'm not saying that this is in fact the case, it is just pointing out that the argument 'if homosexuality is genetic, then evolution would have selected gays out' is too simple, and there are other potential factors that might come into this.

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