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Author
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Topic: Mythology and Belief of Anti-Theism
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 31 of 165 (616549)
05-23-2011 8:50 AM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Jon
05-19-2011 6:39 PM
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Evidence for Jesus
Nice judgmental OP. There are a couple threads on this forum about the whether Jesus existed historically. Why don't you post to them or read them instead of posting an attack OP. I am a loony because I acknowledge that there is no contemporary evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ? You expect me to accept his existence on faith alone?
What I take from this is that these people (anti-theists) are willing to close their minds to any reasonable evidence or discussion
Go to the Jesus existence threads and present this reasonable evidence. EvC Forum: The Existence of Jesus ChristEspescially look at the posts by Kapyong.
Amongst the anti-theists, and by that I mean people typically regarded as fundamental atheists or religion-haters in general, there flows a set of core beliefs and behaviors that define them as a group in the same manner that members of religious denominations hold to tenets that define their membership. Despite claims of being rational, many anti-theists most often present arguments about religious matters that are irrational and unreasonable, and even seek out religious topics to which to apply these irrational, unreasonable argumentsi.e., they target dissenting opinions with irrational, unreasonable garbage arguments. The great danger, here, of course, is that their belief in their own 'unreasonable reasoning' prevents reasoning with them on any matters relating to religion about which they've already formed their beliefs: They cannot be reasoned with in matters where they are behaving blindly unreasonably. All I can say is wow. Projection much. You are doing the same thing here that you accuse others of. Do you think no one has a right to criticize religion?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Jon, posted 05-19-2011 6:39 PM | | Jon has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 36 of 165 (616584)
05-23-2011 12:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 34 by Jon
05-23-2011 12:34 PM
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Re: The Topic
This thread isn't about Jesus. But you base your whole argument on Jesus. Without Jesus you have no argument. As of yet you have provided no evidence of fundamentalist atheism and if you can provide no evidence for Jesus you argument for fundamentalist atheism completely falls apart. You claim fundamentalist atheist do not accept clear obvious evidence but you refuse to show us the evidence. It seems you want people to accept your beliefs on faith alone.
Anyone who wants to deny the existence of fundamentalist atheism is free to do so, but then there is little reason for them to continue participating in a discussion on the matter.
Bullshit. Do you think that discussions should only be with people that accept your faulty premise? Would be kind of a worthless discussion if all you had were yes men participating. If you are going to propose topics like this, grow some stones and defend them. You have lots of assertions, either defend them or concede you cannot defend them.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 34 by Jon, posted 05-23-2011 12:34 PM | | Jon has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 40 by Jon, posted 05-23-2011 1:56 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 43 of 165 (616600)
05-23-2011 2:17 PM
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Reply to: Message 40 by Jon
05-23-2011 1:56 PM
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Re: The Topic
and so far, the majority of replies to this thread have been extremist anti-theists popping in to say 'nuh uh; no I'm not!'. So, since I question whether Jesus is a historic figure I am an extremist anti-theist? So this is the criteria to meet your definition? Lets see. Jon - Has no evidence and not willing to present evidence for his dogmatic beliefs. Therefore rational theist. Theodoric - Does not see any evidence and willing to consider any evidence given. Radical extremist anti-theist. Is that right? This whole thread is you being what you accuse people of. By trying to expose extremist anti-theists you are exposing yourself as an extremist anti-atheist. Your whole argument is that anyone that questions the existence of Jesus is some extremist looney. That people do not accept your beliefs on faith means there is something wrong with them. Your hypocrisy is astounding.
You can understand why, like their Creationist counterparts, I've little desire to take them seriously. I'm looking for some honest discussion here, preferably with people who aren't so obstinate as to think ignorance a purely religious phenomenon. And when you got nothing you resort to insults. Stay classy my friend. I am trying to have an honest discussion, but you have put up a wall. Your definition of an "anti-theist"(whatever that truly is) is so ridiculous that it must be addressed before what your attempted topic is. You do not want a frank discussion, you are hoping for an atheist bashing thread as shown by your ridiculous definitions and your unwillingness to defend your definition of what an anti-theist is.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 40 by Jon, posted 05-23-2011 1:56 PM | | Jon has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 45 of 165 (616612)
05-23-2011 2:54 PM
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Reply to: Message 39 by Jon
05-23-2011 1:44 PM
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One question for Jon
How does not accepting that Jesus existed make me an anti-Islam, buddhist, Tao, Jain, Hindu or Sikh? The whole premise you are building is christian centric. Christianity is just one group in the theistic world. Maybe if you based your idea of anti-theist on something more reasonable I might be able to agree with you on some level. But to posit that someone is anti-anything because they do not take your beliefs on faith is just plain asinine.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 39 by Jon, posted 05-23-2011 1:44 PM | | Jon has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 53 of 165 (616647)
05-23-2011 6:50 PM
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Reply to: Message 52 by Jon
05-23-2011 6:45 PM
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Re: Understanding the Anti-Religious ...
Specifically, I'm looking at the atheist equivalent of religious fundamentalists. One issue is your feeble attempt to categorize this atheist equivalent has been shown to be ridiculous. Maybe if you can actually show an atheist that is the equivalent you can get this discussion to actually begin.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 52 by Jon, posted 05-23-2011 6:45 PM | | Jon has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 56 of 165 (616651)
05-23-2011 7:48 PM
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Reply to: Message 54 by Jon
05-23-2011 7:09 PM
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Re: The Topic
If these claims are so ridiculous, why do these people make and cling to them?
Please show us some of these ridiculous claims. So far you have not shown any ridiculous claims that would make someone an extremist.
What is the mindset(s) fostering the irrationality of irrational (fundamentalist, strident, fanatic, or dogmatic) atheism?
Give an example of irrational atheism. It still seems to me that the only purpose you have for this thread is to bash atheist. Maybe can present an argument that shows that this is a false impression.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 54 by Jon, posted 05-23-2011 7:09 PM | | Jon has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 58 of 165 (616653)
05-23-2011 7:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 55 by Modulous
05-23-2011 7:40 PM
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Re: The Topic
If he presents Robert Price as an extremist atheist it is obvious he has an axe to grind. Price is in no way an extremist and is not an atheist. I guess in Jon's world anyone not his type of Christian is an atheist, and any questioning of the historicity of Jesus is right out. About Robert Price
quote:
A self-described humanist, he is a member of the Episcopal Church
SourceI didn't realize that Episcopalian's were a bastion for Atheism. I should thank Jon for pointing that out.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 55 by Modulous, posted 05-23-2011 7:40 PM | | Modulous has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 59 by Jon, posted 05-23-2011 8:04 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 61 of 165 (616657)
05-23-2011 8:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 59 by Jon
05-23-2011 8:04 PM
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Re: The Topic
What type of Christian would that be?
How would I know? Evidently Robert Price isn't your type of Christian.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 59 by Jon, posted 05-23-2011 8:04 PM | | Jon has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 65 of 165 (616661)
05-23-2011 8:18 PM
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Reply to: Message 64 by Jon
05-23-2011 8:14 PM
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Re: The Unreasonable Reasoning of the Anti-Religious
And this thread isn't about that theory anyway. I agree it seems to be about Atheist bashing. Why don't you respond to Message 56? You responded to my post to Mod after it and others. How about addressing criticism instead of lame attempts to deflect them.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 64 by Jon, posted 05-23-2011 8:14 PM | | Jon has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 79 of 165 (616736)
05-24-2011 10:03 AM
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Reply to: Message 76 by Phat
05-24-2011 2:53 AM
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Re: Topic Synopsis 1
Why do you actively prefer to believe that there isn't one? Why do you assume everyone else needs to have the same need for belief as you? I do not know any atheists that actively prefer. There either is evidence or there isn't. Since there isn't evidence it seems quite illogical and delusion to believe in a god.
Surely evidence is a mere formality!
Why? Because it is to you?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 76 by Phat, posted 05-24-2011 2:53 AM | | Phat has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 80 of 165 (616737)
05-24-2011 10:07 AM
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Reply to: Message 78 by Modulous
05-24-2011 8:55 AM
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Re: The Santa Gap
There is evidence,
The bible. Nothing else. There is no contemporary evidence at all.
This seems to be what the Romans heard when they heard 'king of Israel', its an interesting and unnecessary nuance. There is no evidence that the Romans heard anything at all about Jesus. The first mention in any Roman records is at least 50 years after the supposed crucifixion.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by Modulous, posted 05-24-2011 8:55 AM | | Modulous has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 81 by Modulous, posted 05-24-2011 10:15 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 116 of 165 (616972)
05-25-2011 12:12 PM
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Reply to: Message 113 by Jon
05-25-2011 11:59 AM
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Re: The Unreasonable Reasoning of the Anti-Religious
Yes, but the things that irrational atheists are irrational about tend to have a type, or so I have observed. It seems though that no one agrees with your idea of irrational. I know I am waiting for you to post something that is irrational that defines these "extremist atheists". You refuse to defend you Jesus idea. Oh wait I think I have it figured out. Jesus existed, but he didn't do anything at all that is in the bible. Just some guy probably named Morris that wild stories started up about. How can you equate the Biblical Jesus to a historical person if that person was nothing like the bible guy? Is Jesus an amalgam of different people, different stories and fables and myths? Probably. But to say that means a historical Jesus existed is plain ludicrous. You might as well say Robin Hood and King Arthur existed. Is that what you mean? That Jesus existed in the same way as Robin Hood and King Arthur?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 113 by Jon, posted 05-25-2011 11:59 AM | | Jon has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 123 by Bailey, posted 05-28-2011 1:37 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 124 of 165 (617572)
05-29-2011 7:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 123 by Bailey
05-28-2011 1:37 PM
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Re: In regards to irrational positions which define 'extreme atheists' ..
If you read the thread you will see that your post is a bit deeper and more comples than anything Jon has said or proposed. Also, you question does not diffentiate between atheist and "extremist" atheist.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 123 by Bailey, posted 05-28-2011 1:37 PM | | Bailey has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 125 by Bailey, posted 05-29-2011 9:23 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9202 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.4
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Message 126 of 165 (617590)
05-29-2011 10:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 125 by Bailey
05-29-2011 9:23 PM
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Re: In regards to irrational positions which define 'extreme atheists' ..
As I said in my first post, average and typical atheists are - by definition, not found making claims and the extreme atheism movement explicitly denies the existence of any gods Again, that is not Jons argument
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 125 by Bailey, posted 05-29-2011 9:23 PM | | Bailey has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 128 by Bailey, posted 05-30-2011 6:38 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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