Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,914 Year: 4,171/9,624 Month: 1,042/974 Week: 1/368 Day: 1/11 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The False Dichotomy of Natural and Spiritual
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 8 of 29 (611442)
04-07-2011 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sac51495
04-02-2011 1:46 AM


On belief...
Let me state once more with regard to the theist that I believe firmly that spiritual and natural realities exist interconnected, and that theology cannot be divorced from science, and neither can the naturalistic scientist coexist peacefully with the pietistic theologian.
As Heinlein noted,
Belief gets in the way of learning.
Once you believe something you can no longer evaluate it's merits based on empirical evidence. This is particularly true when those beliefs are not based on empirical evidence in the first place!
This seems to describe most all of religion.
Debating religious belief amounts to no more than literary criticism, but at least with Hamlet et al. the characters are more entertaining.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sac51495, posted 04-02-2011 1:46 AM sac51495 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by sac51495, posted 04-09-2011 9:59 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2136 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 17 of 29 (611687)
04-09-2011 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by sac51495
04-09-2011 9:59 PM


Re: On belief...
Once you believe something you can no longer evaluate it's merits based on empirical evidence. This is particularly true when those beliefs are not based on empirical evidence in the first place!
I guess, from this, I could say that you believe that beliefs get in the way. Thus, you hold the self-contradictory belief that beliefs get in the way!
I believe what I quoted was Heinlein's statement that "Belief gets in the way of learning." I further emphasized this by adding the passage quoted above.
There is no contradiction there.
And lest you object and say that this belief is an empirically-based belief (thus validating it), I would point out that you must first hold the belief that beliefs can be empirically validated!
Nonsense.
Regarding your statement about religious beliefs, I point you to my definition of religion: the metaphysical beliefs held by a man, beliefs which influence his view of knowledge and of morality, and to which he pays homage in the form of institutionalized worship.
And by institutionalized worship, I do not necessarily mean congregating in a church building and singing. Nor do I necessarily mean bowing your physical body down in front of a physical altar. Worship is nothing more than adoration.
Your definition of religion is of no importance. We are discussing beliefs and whether or not they detract from learning. I suggest that firmly held beliefs prohibit learning. Religions are the examples of this. Fundamentalist religions are premier examples of this.
Aristotelian society adores the mind of man, and institutionalizes its adoration by devoting their entire being to constantly validating and invalidating empirical claims: that is, to adore the mind of man by action.
So? That seems to work better than religious belief. Look at the massive number of Christian denominations, sects, and other subdivisions. There are an estimated 40,000 of them! If there was some empirical evidence which could determine which of these beliefs were correct, there should be far fewer, or only one such denomination. Instead, there is an increasing number of subdivisions.
This is because these are based on belief, and not on empirical evidence.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by sac51495, posted 04-09-2011 9:59 PM sac51495 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024