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Author Topic:   Symphony by accident
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1 of 23 (605638)
02-21-2011 11:13 AM


I was at the concert hall the other night when suddenly, and entirely by accident, the sound of a Beethoven symphony rang through the hall.
  • The violinists were using their bows to cause random vibrations of the strings;
  • the flautists were blowing random air movements to their instruments;
  • the trumpeters were causing random vibrations of their lips on the mouthpiece;
  • the drummer was generating random vibrations on the drum.
Quite obviously, using the same reasoning as Bolder-dash in Is it an Accident?, that there was music was a complete accident.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 2:44 PM nwr has replied
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2011 3:17 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 7 of 23 (605675)
02-21-2011 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by slevesque
02-21-2011 2:44 PM


slevesque writes:
If I'm not mistaken the number of mutations fixed by selection is quite small compared to genetic drift.
I'm not sure if this is settled. Actually, I'm not even sure that the terminology is settled.
As far as I know, it is combinations of genes that are most important. Traits may depend on many genes. The mutations add variation to the population. Then the filter of natural selection acts on that variation.
My example of music was admittedly an extreme case, intended for emphasis. But the point is that you have randomness that is fed into a filter. In our normal way of talking, we don't use "accident" when there is a directional filter.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 2:44 PM slevesque has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 3:14 PM nwr has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 17 of 23 (605700)
02-21-2011 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by slevesque
02-21-2011 3:14 PM


slevesque writes:
Yes, but the force of the filter must be proportionally as strong as the quantity of randomness flooding in.
Mutation produces the variation. However, it is biological reproduction that pumps that variation into the filter. There's lots of force in that "pumping".

Jesus was a liberal hippie

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 Message 10 by slevesque, posted 02-21-2011 3:14 PM slevesque has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 18 of 23 (605702)
02-21-2011 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Dr Adequate
02-21-2011 3:17 PM


Dr Adequate writes:
All sorts of bizarre accidents like that have been happening to me lately.
Indeed, the evidence from quantum physics is that everything is accidental in the Bolder-dash sense of "accident."

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-21-2011 3:17 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6412
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 23 of 23 (605909)
02-22-2011 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Taq
02-22-2011 12:31 PM


Taq writes:
You are conflating neutral drift with positive selection. That is quite dishonest confused of you.
I fixed it for you.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Taq, posted 02-22-2011 12:31 PM Taq has not replied

  
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