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Author Topic:   Dishonesty and ID
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 37 (7954)
03-28-2002 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Joe Meert
03-26-2002 8:31 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Joe Meert:
JM:This makes me think that Wells has not bothered to study the Cambrian 'slow burn' in any detail.

Actually, I find the fallacious and generally pathetic response by the NCSE most interesting.
Could you please (in simple terms- remember that I'm a creationist!
) describe the "slow burn" hypothesis?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Joe Meert, posted 03-26-2002 8:31 AM Joe Meert has not replied

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 37 (8497)
04-14-2002 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by The Barbarian
03-29-2002 10:13 AM


quote:
Originally posted by The Barbarian:
The others are just as bad and further evidence of the lack of moral fiber on the part of the IDers. I would be pleased to discuss them further here, if someone wants to hear about them.
"Lack of moral fiber"? Actually, nothing you stated showed that Wells lacked "moral fiber", at most you could accuse him of scientific incompetence. However, the outright lie of the NCSE that fish were not present in the Cambrian seems to be a good indicator of the lack of such "fiber".
"I suppose you are aware that Wells has admitted that before he ever got his degree, that he had a religious mission to "destroy evolution". Or maybe you aren't. Wells doesn't mention that these days. That's an important bit of evidence for the ethical standards of IDers also."
First of all, this statement constitutes a logical fallacy, that is, trying to discredit information by it's source. Secondly, I don't see how a statement that you wish to "destroy evolution" is an indicator of a lack of moral integrity. Perhaps you could inform me?
Thirdly, I think you might find this interesting:
http://www.iconsofevolution.com/embedJonsArticles.php3?id=607

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by The Barbarian, posted 03-29-2002 10:13 AM The Barbarian has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Percy, posted 04-14-2002 10:53 AM Cobra_snake has replied

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 37 (8504)
04-14-2002 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Percy
04-14-2002 10:53 AM


Thanks Percipient for a very well-thought-out and reasonable reply.
I'd also like to point out, though, that it is nearly impossible for a scientist to enter the fray without a preconcieved notion in an area of study such as evolution, which can be a very emotional issue.
[This message has been edited by Cobra_snake, 04-14-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Percy, posted 04-14-2002 10:53 AM Percy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by compmage, posted 04-15-2002 3:32 AM Cobra_snake has not replied
 Message 20 by Quetzal, posted 04-15-2002 3:33 AM Cobra_snake has replied

  
Cobra_snake
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 37 (8579)
04-15-2002 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Quetzal
04-15-2002 3:33 AM


"Hi Cobra: I want to start out by saying that I agree with both you and Percy concerning the fact that attacking an individual or their credentials is not a valid argument. I do, however, feel constrained to point out that when an individual or his/her credentials are used as a basis (or one of the bases) for judging the validity of a claim made by that individual, then the credentials and/or individual motivations are fair game. An example would be if someone were to say, "Dr. Jonathan Wells, a PhD biologist, states..." (or words to that effect)."
I understand and agree with you. However, I'd like to point out that Creationists often brag about their credentials in order to dispel the myth that there are no credentialed scientists who do not follow the evolution world view.
"I'm not sure I agree with this statement - at least as written. It certainly makes sense to me that an evolutionary biologist devoting his/her life to studying evolution would have an interest in promoting the science. I'm not sure how that equates to "preconceived notion". They are certainly willing to argue about the details of evolution - often passionately - but to conclude that there is some kind of bias that would preclude them from considering actual evidence is stretching it, don't you think?"
All I was referring to was the idea that it would be difficult for a normal person to begin studying the issue without a preconcieved notion. Generally, I person either starts out with the idea that "evolution is true" or "evolution is false". They may be very prepared to have their views changed, but beginning scientific study without a preconcieved notion in an issue with such emotional impact as evolution is surely not likely.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Quetzal, posted 04-15-2002 3:33 AM Quetzal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Joe Meert, posted 04-15-2002 8:17 PM Cobra_snake has not replied
 Message 27 by Quetzal, posted 04-16-2002 2:29 AM Cobra_snake has not replied

  
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