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Author Topic:   Is Christianity Polytheistic?
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 284 of 375 (568553)
07-06-2010 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by Practical Prodigy
07-06-2010 3:12 AM


Re: No, You're Not God
Your not God, because you did not create the Universe, life, or the countless other glories that would make that title appropriate.
Huh. Sorry but that is not a very strong argument.
Christianity does lay claim that there is a creator, and many people even believe in that creator, but that provides no support for the reality of the Christian God. There is as much support for Raven or Brahma or Amun or any of the other creators mentioned in mythology.
But the question is whether or not Christianity is polytheistic?
The answer to that depends on the era of the respondent as well as the context of the particular discussion. The early Jews were definitely polytheistic.
Historically, Satan is a lesser creature, a servant of the Judaic God. Much later the myth of a fallen angel was incorporated although the source of that myth was excluded from some Canons, particularly the Western Canon.
Even then though, Satan was not a God but rather something even less than man.
The real internal inconsistency though is the concept of the Trinity, and the only way to deny that it is polytheistic is to simply make a denial, and that is what Christianity does, we declare it a "Mystery", a Unity of Three.
What we don't do though is ever present a model that truly explains it.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Practical Prodigy, posted 07-06-2010 3:12 AM Practical Prodigy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Practical Prodigy, posted 07-06-2010 7:22 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 288 of 375 (568572)
07-06-2010 7:31 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by Practical Prodigy
07-06-2010 7:22 PM


Re: No, You're Not God
That was not my argument, was simple one of the many examples I used to show the logical fallacy of his argument.
It was a quote from your post. The examples you post are not your argument? How peculiar.
Perhaps if you actually bothered to read some of the post I made instead of quote-mining from someone who deflects with red herrings and avoids 90% of the points you raise, you would get the whole picture instead of making yourself look dumb by joining the bandwagon with someone who doesnt know how to even post a proper position that is not full of multiple fallacy concepts.
Perhaps you can point out where I quote mined anyone?
Perhaps you would care to address the many points I have made as to why his position is utter rubbish?
Perhaps you missed that I was addressing YOUR position not the position of someone else?
AbE:
By the way the trinity does not condone polytheism unless you have some twisted version of it. It simply explains the different forms God can take; true form, human form, and essence (spirit). Not hard to understand roughly equivalent to; gas, solid, liquid of a said element. You wouldnt call them a different element just due to fact the changed form, Kudos.
Ah, the heresy of Monarchianism.
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by Practical Prodigy, posted 07-06-2010 7:22 PM Practical Prodigy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by Practical Prodigy, posted 07-06-2010 8:19 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 290 of 375 (568580)
07-06-2010 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by Practical Prodigy
07-06-2010 8:19 PM


Re: No, You're Not God
Quote-mining is where you take a small part of a post out of context. Which either you did intentionally, or what I hope is the ther answr, simply requoted someone else who took it out of context.
If you wanted to address my post you could have addressed the heart of the issue not a poke of fun at someone with a head harder than granite. I have repeated myslef ad nauseum to explain why his postion is laughable and have yet to get a serious reply just one red herring after another, its quite comical.
Heresy you say? Please expand...
Actually I quoted a full sentence from you and thanks to the design of this forum my post is linked back to the exact message so context is maintained.
Monarchianism is a Trinity based heresy, often seen in two forms, one where the Trinity is represented by three different modes, as in your example of solid, liquid, gas.
But don't worry, there are many more heresies for you to explore.
And I've never been able to find a reasonable or logical explanation of the Trinity that does not end up as Polytheistic except the model I outlined in Message 284.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by Practical Prodigy, posted 07-06-2010 8:19 PM Practical Prodigy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Practical Prodigy, posted 07-07-2010 12:20 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 295 of 375 (568622)
07-07-2010 8:36 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Practical Prodigy
07-07-2010 12:20 AM


on the heresy called Monarchianism
Well nowhere did you provide a supposedly non-heretical explaination. Also the fact you say it is heresy means very little, it is what was said by God that there is only one. Anything else is heresy and blasphemy. To say that God is one and has different contets that he applies his essence is not polytheistic. It is still the same spirit and essence, and Jesus/Holy Spirit are not deity in themselves just manifestations of God as is everything else in the Universe.
I explained that I have never found an explanation for the concept of the Trinity other than the model I presented, declaring the inconsistencies to be a Mystery.
But it seems that you really need to learn a little bit about the religion that is Christianity. To claim that there is only one and that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not separate and unique entities has been deemed heresy, the specific heresy called Monarchianism.
Understand that is not my opinion, not what I say, but rather the declaration of Orthodoxy Christianity for almost 2000 years.
I'm not sure how old you are or whether you know much about Christianity, I can only point out the factual errors you make and try to help you learn a little about the religion you seem to have chosen. What you describe dates to around 200CE and was actually proposed as a counter to the concept of a Trinity so it is a heresy that has been around for quite awhile.
You probably should know that to say "Jesus/Holy Spirit are not deity in themselves" is also the sin of Blaspheming the Holy Spirit, the one unforgivable sin that damns the utterer to hell forever according to the Bible so you might want to rethink that.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Practical Prodigy, posted 07-07-2010 12:20 AM Practical Prodigy has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 319 of 375 (569134)
07-20-2010 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 318 by Straggler
07-20-2010 12:39 PM


Re: I Am God
Straggler writes:
Explain to me why it is "stupid" to suggest that we can apply a religion-independent use of the term "god" when objectively analysing the beliefs of biblical Christians?
Why must we un-questioningly adhere to their rules on this?
You don't have to adhere to their rules. You are free to believe most anything you want, even that their rules are wrong.
What is stupid is to suggest that a religion-independent use of the term 'god' is appropriate to a discussion of a particular religion.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 318 by Straggler, posted 07-20-2010 12:39 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 321 by Straggler, posted 07-20-2010 1:07 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 323 of 375 (569143)
07-20-2010 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 321 by Straggler
07-20-2010 1:07 PM


Re: I Am God
Straggler writes:
If we look at theism as a whole, objectively and not in terms of the definitions of any one particular religion, biblical Christians could legitimately be classed as polytheists who believe themselves to be monotheists.
You could say that YOU class them as such, but remember that is simply YOUR belief, and certainly no more valid then their position.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 321 by Straggler, posted 07-20-2010 1:07 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 324 by Straggler, posted 07-20-2010 1:22 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 326 of 375 (569154)
07-20-2010 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by Straggler
07-20-2010 1:22 PM


Re: I Am God
Straggler writes:
If we were classifying religions based purely on the concepts in which they believe rather than their own internal definitions how could biblical Christians fail to be polytheists?
You are free of course to make any classification you want. Just understand that it has no more validity than their position that they are Monotheist.
The problem is you are trying to apply your definitions of what a word means when it is not the definition they use.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Straggler, posted 07-20-2010 1:22 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by Straggler, posted 07-20-2010 1:50 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 330 of 375 (569163)
07-20-2010 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by Straggler
07-20-2010 1:50 PM


Re: I Am God
Straggler writes:
jar writes:
The problem is you are trying to apply your definitions of what a word means when it is not the definition they use.
My definition?
Are you saying that the term "god" is utterly devoid of any common conceptual meaning?
Very good.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Straggler, posted 07-20-2010 1:50 PM Straggler has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 357 of 375 (570548)
07-27-2010 6:36 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by nwr
07-27-2010 6:32 PM


Re: The Criteria Quest Continues.....
nwr writes:
Straggler writes:
Straggler writes:
Can Bob legitimately call himself an atheist?
Why should anybody even care?
Jess Straggler. Seems important to him.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by nwr, posted 07-27-2010 6:32 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by Straggler, posted 07-27-2010 6:58 PM jar has not replied

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