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Author
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Topic: The accelerating expanding universe
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 9 of 149 (550442)
03-15-2010 4:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by cavediver
03-14-2010 5:57 AM
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A (probably) dumb question
This stuff is way outside my area of expertise (or even minimal education), but I have a question. The further away an object is, the older we are seeing it, simply because it takes the light longer to get here. Thus, isn't it reasonable to assume that we are seeing past acceleration? If this is the case, what reason is there to conclude that the past acceleration is still occurring?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by cavediver, posted 03-14-2010 5:57 AM | | cavediver has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 10 by cavediver, posted 03-15-2010 4:47 PM | | subbie has seen this message but not replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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A general question for anyone
Unfortunately I do not see how from anything either Einstein or yourself stated may follow anything that would require violating the necessity of the Copernican mediocrity principle being applied temporally. This physics stuff is so far over my head that I really can't make much of anything anyone says about it. But I gotta say, this quoted portion just sounds like meaningless word salad. Can anyone confirm that for me? Or, in the alternative, if it does mean something, can it be translated into something resembling English?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 74 by crashfrog, posted 04-06-2011 2:15 PM | | subbie has seen this message but not replied | | | Message 75 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 2:29 PM | | subbie has replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 76 of 149 (611185)
04-06-2011 2:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 75 by cavediver
04-06-2011 2:29 PM
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Re: A general question for anyone
Ok. I'm familiar with the Cosmological Principle, I've just never heard it called the Copernican Mediocrity Principle. Thanks for the explanation. Now, can you explain in words of one syllable or less why it doesn't apply to our temporal position?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 75 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 2:29 PM | | cavediver has replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 80 of 149 (611204)
04-06-2011 4:03 PM
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Reply to: Message 78 by cavediver
04-06-2011 3:50 PM
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Re: A general question for anyone
I would chide you for using many words of more than one syllable, but I think I was able to follow you. Mostly. The universe is kind of like a bundt cake. We could be anywhere in the cake, there's nothing unique about our position in the cake. But we couldn't be in the cake an hour ago, because it wasn't a cake then, it was cake batter. So, if we were in a steady state universe, then the Cosmological Principle could conceivably apply to time?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 78 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 3:50 PM | | cavediver has replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 82 of 149 (611209)
04-06-2011 4:23 PM
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Reply to: Message 81 by cavediver
04-06-2011 4:18 PM
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Re: A general question for anyone
Wonderful! Thanks for the explanation.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 81 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 4:18 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 84 of 149 (611218)
04-06-2011 5:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 83 by cavediver
04-06-2011 4:47 PM
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Re: A general question for anyone
Yet with the continuing and ever increasing expansion, the encroaching heat-death or cold-death will eventually be reached, and the Universe will remain in that state ad infinitum. The last I heard (a few millennia ago), the idea of dark matter was being discussed as something that might add enough mass to the universe to make a Big Crunch possible. Was that just science fiction musing or is there something to that?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 83 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 4:47 PM | | cavediver has replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 86 of 149 (611220)
04-06-2011 5:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 85 by Michael
04-06-2011 5:01 PM
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Re: A general question for anyone
The more I thought about it, the more sense it makes to me. The universe is a lemon poppy seed bundt cake. The poppy seeds are stars, galaxies, pimples, whatever. As the cake rises in the oven, everything gets farther away (inflation). As a bundt, it has no beginning, end, nor center. And both a lemon poppy seed bundt cake and the universe are good a la mode. Well, ok, it's not a perfect parallel, but I think it has possibilities.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 85 by Michael, posted 04-06-2011 5:01 PM | | Michael has not replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 88 of 149 (611225)
04-06-2011 5:25 PM
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Reply to: Message 87 by Jon
04-06-2011 5:15 PM
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Re: A general question for anyone
Suppose there were a way to enclose a biological system and allow it to continue to function perpetually without the input of external energy potential, would this system still be able to exist after the heat-death/cold-death, or does the fact that it was built of particles from the expanding Universe mean that it too will expand and undergo the heat-death/cold-death extinction? I mean, is the expansion happening at even the most minute level, such that even creating a biological system will be impossible after the heat-death/cold-death simply because the atomic structures required for such systems would no longer exist? Let me take an arm chair scientist stab at this. Any such system would fall prey to the creotard's favorite Law of Thermodynamics. A closed system inevitably succumbs to increasing entropy.
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 87 by Jon, posted 04-06-2011 5:15 PM | | Jon has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 90 by Jon, posted 04-06-2011 5:43 PM | | subbie has seen this message but not replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 95 of 149 (611238)
04-06-2011 6:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 93 by cavediver
04-06-2011 5:56 PM
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Re: A general question for anyone
What is hilarious is that you even screw up presenting his claptrap. So would this be a fail fail? 
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 93 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 5:56 PM | | cavediver has not replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1284 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 98 of 149 (611255)
04-06-2011 7:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 97 by cavediver
04-06-2011 6:16 PM
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Big Bounce
But...but...but... I really want the universe to be cyclical, banging, crunching, bouncing and banging again. If I want hard enough, that will happen, right? If I clap my hands and say, "I believe in the Big Bounce," can I make it happen?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 97 by cavediver, posted 04-06-2011 6:16 PM | | cavediver has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 100 by cavediver, posted 04-07-2011 3:56 AM | | subbie has seen this message but not replied |
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