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Author Topic:   How did round planets form from the explosion of the Big Bang?
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 43 of 156 (543488)
01-18-2010 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by cavediver
01-08-2010 8:46 AM


E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
cavediver,
are you saying that in your opinion, matter is a field and that means that matter is not also stored energy(defies college text books)? Whatever the case, matter is definitely stored energy(dormant) that can be excited. E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955). The "metal spring" in your example is a good example here. A depressed "metal spring" has a potential amount of energy stored and it takes a certain KEY to release that stored energy(chemically or in the depressed metal spring). Just like it takes a special KEY(stimulus) to open a locked storage compartment. The energy in matter is simply locked up/rendered or dormant and requires a key(stimulus) to release it. Another example is a plant. Plants absorb energy all day long from the sun and that energy is released when digested via the key/stimulus of enzymes in the digester(a stimulus). FYI: Energy is in a constant state of conversion. These conversions typically require a KEY(a stimulus) for the conversion to take place.
Thanks
Sasuke
Edited by Sasuke, : format edit and additional context
Edited by Sasuke, : Link
Edited by Sasuke, : Grammatical err

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by cavediver, posted 01-08-2010 8:46 AM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by cavediver, posted 01-18-2010 5:20 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 45 of 156 (543495)
01-18-2010 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by cavediver
01-18-2010 5:20 PM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
Cavediver,
everything in our universe is done via chemical reactions(Nivaldo J Trio, Introductory Chemistry 3rd edition, 2009). The plant in my last post is a good example. Plants absorb energy from the sun and eventually are digested by human beings in order to harness the stored energy that is dormant. Just like Einstein preached even, E=mc^2.
The depressed metal spring in your example, The depression of the metal spring requires energy to do it, well the energy that is depressing that metal spring also requires a stimulus to depress the metal spring. The stimulus that causes the compressor to depress the metal spring also requires another stimulus and this cycle never ends. Energy is in a constant state of conversion. If matter is not stored energy, are plants not made of matter? and if plants are made of matter, why do we eat them?
Thanks
Sasuke
FYI: You should follow standardized lessons in your classes as to avoid providing less accurate data.
Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by cavediver, posted 01-18-2010 5:20 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Meldinoor, posted 01-18-2010 6:20 PM Sasuke has replied
 Message 53 by cavediver, posted 01-18-2010 7:22 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 47 of 156 (543500)
01-18-2010 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Meldinoor
01-18-2010 6:20 PM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
Meldinoor,
Matter is made of chemicals. Matter = Material. These chemicals can be found on the periodic table. When you digest a plant you are in fact digesting chemicals/matter. Energy is made up of chemicals. So in fact when you digest matter you are in fact digesting chemicals and when you digest chemicals you are in fact digesting energy. Matter is stored energy and it does require a stimulus to release that stored energy. I've quoted my course manuals from the past.
Thanks
Sasuke
FYI: Light is manifested when electrons are shed from a atom which is going through a phase reduction of higher energy level to lower energy level.
Edited by Sasuke, : addition of off topic

This message is a reply to:
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Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 49 of 156 (543503)
01-18-2010 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Dr Jack
01-18-2010 6:31 PM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
Mr. Jack,
Matter is never lost. Burn a piece of wood, the heat is released but the sum of the particles will in mass weigh the same as the original if gathered. The new material gathered will not only be the same mass but it is also a new form of stored energy that can be used to do something else. I've also already quoted course materials in previous posts.
Thanks
Sasuke

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Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Coragyps, posted 01-18-2010 6:52 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 52 of 156 (543506)
01-18-2010 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Coragyps
01-18-2010 6:52 PM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
Coragyps,
I am sure this loss can be accounted for in other chemical reactions. What data do you have to support this claim? Maybe even LIGHT accounts for some of it since photons originate from the center of the sun and are billions of years old before they reach earth. Of course I am just speculating as I don't even know if photons can be considered material or not... Confused about this one...
Thanks
Sasuke
Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Coragyps, posted 01-18-2010 6:52 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Coragyps, posted 01-18-2010 8:02 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 55 of 156 (543510)
01-18-2010 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by cavediver
01-18-2010 7:22 PM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
cavediver,
I don't care how you feel about your job. It's still a job and it's still just theoretical physics being done by primitive idiots(u r human). You have provided nothing except assertions and superficial cultural attitude. Provide some valid info, please I insist.
Thanks
Sasuke

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by cavediver, posted 01-18-2010 7:22 PM cavediver has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by cavediver, posted 01-18-2010 7:28 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 57 of 156 (543512)
01-18-2010 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by cavediver
01-18-2010 7:28 PM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
cavediver,
It's obvious I don't know it all, that is why im asking this top notch theoretical physics teacher of the top department in the world to validate my o so stupid self....
Thanks
Sasuke

This message is a reply to:
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Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 60 of 156 (543518)
01-18-2010 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by cavediver
01-18-2010 7:31 PM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
cavediver,
when a chemical/material bond is broken energy is released. To break the bond is to stimulate the energy to flow. It's much like a light switch on/off by the touch of a finger. I will admit flowing energy)energy is flux) and stored energy(dormant energy) are two different things. However, it is just a sum of chemical reactions that make the difference even if were talking about protons, neutrons and electrons as the base for these chemical reactions as they are chemicals. Example, what is the sum of 1 proton? H+ which is a hydrogen ion/chemical.
Thanks
Sasuke

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by cavediver, posted 01-18-2010 7:31 PM cavediver has not replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 62 of 156 (543521)
01-18-2010 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Coragyps
01-18-2010 8:02 PM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
Corogyps,
I will quote some previous course materials that were updated in 2009. Intro Chem 3rd edition, N.J.Trio, 2009).
"As we have seen, our planet, our air, and even our bodies are composed of matter. Physical and chemical changes do not destroy matter, nor do they create new matter. Recall from CH.1 that Antoine Lavoisier by studying combustion, established the law of conservation of mass which states:
Matter is neither created nor destroyed in a chemical reaction.
During physical and chemical changes, the total amount of matter remains constant. how does this happen? when we burn butane in a lighter, the butane slowly disappears. Where does it go? It combines with oxygen to form carbon dioxide and water that go into the surrounding air. The mass of the carbon dioxide and water that form, however, must exactly equal the mass of butane and oxygen that combined.
Example: 58g of butane will react with 208g of oxygen to form 176g of carbon dioxide and 90g of water.
58g butane + 208g oxygen = 176g if carbon dioxide + 90g water
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
266g
The sum of the masses of the butane and oxygen, 266g, is equal to the sum of the masses of the carbon dioxide and water, which is also 266g. Matter is conserved."
So if it involves chemical reactions. Matter is always conserved. I don't care how much radiation the sun radiates. I am sure this "loss" can be accounted for.
Thanks
Sasuke
Edited by Sasuke, : "

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 Message 61 by Coragyps, posted 01-18-2010 8:02 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by lyx2no, posted 01-18-2010 11:07 PM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 64 of 156 (543525)
01-19-2010 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 63 by lyx2no
01-18-2010 11:07 PM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
lyx2no,
Mass is the measurement of the amount of matter. The bonds are simply an assumption. Matter contains energy that is dormant and this dormant energy can be released through other processes hence that is why I said stimulus is required. In anycase, matter is dormant/stored energy. I still have yet to see any textbooks or references for any of your claims or arguments.
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

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 Message 63 by lyx2no, posted 01-18-2010 11:07 PM lyx2no has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Rahvin, posted 01-19-2010 1:04 AM Sasuke has replied
 Message 67 by bluescat48, posted 01-19-2010 1:47 AM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 66 of 156 (543529)
01-19-2010 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 65 by Rahvin
01-19-2010 1:04 AM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
Rahvin,
you said the following,
Matter is that which has mass and takes up space
-so matter takes up space
energy has mass but does not take up space
-energy does not take up space
Most of your mass, in fact, is binding energy.
-now all of a sudden energy does take up space
So far all of your arguments have been to insult me on top of providing no references for any of your arguments.
Let me move past this silly little horse game to a simple question?
What is the difference between MATTER containing chemicals/atoms that clearly have POTENTIAL(dormant) energy if stimulated
AND
Matter is energy binded......
?????????????
I really think the only difference in our opinions is simply a communication barrier. You choose a different set of words than I do......
Edited by Sasuke, : spell err
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

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 Message 65 by Rahvin, posted 01-19-2010 1:04 AM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by MatterWave, posted 01-19-2010 1:48 AM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 69 of 156 (543532)
01-19-2010 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 67 by bluescat48
01-19-2010 1:47 AM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
bluescat48,
I thank you for your reference I will look it up.
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

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Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 70 of 156 (543533)
01-19-2010 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by MatterWave
01-19-2010 1:48 AM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
MatterWave,
Well I took a few chemistry classes and to sum up what I learned. Matter is made of chemicals. These chemicals can be found on the periodic table. Atoms bind to make different things. Molecules for one but then other things as well. Large amounts of these chemicals bind together to form matter. This matter can be broken down back into individual chemicals or whatever. The idea of energy comes into play when your looking for a capacity to do work. This energy or capacity to do work can be taken from a energy storage bank. This bank is essentially matter. Even though matter its self has no capacity to do work, the chemicals contained in matter can be stripped through stimulation such as catching gasoline on fire in order to do the work. There is more but that is to sum it up.... So that is why I say that matter is stored energy because the chemicals contained in matter is essentially dormant energy. If something is contained in something that makes it part of the whole and as such that means matter is essentially stoed energy. Maybe my jargon does not fit in with the modern day jargon of some of these high end departments in universities but the point still stands.. Sure matter is a field but its a field made of chemicals that if stimulated the correct way yields massive amounts of energy. This to me means matter is a storage bank of dormant energy.
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by MatterWave, posted 01-19-2010 1:48 AM MatterWave has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by MatterWave, posted 01-19-2010 2:50 AM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 72 of 156 (543539)
01-19-2010 3:15 AM
Reply to: Message 71 by MatterWave
01-19-2010 2:50 AM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
MatterWave,
Then how/why do you associate e=mc^2 with energy and matter? I've always thought it ment literally energy = mass x speed of light^2.
The speed of light^2 variable does not make much sense to me though.
Edited by Sasuke, : spell err
Edited by Sasuke, : clarity
Edited by Sasuke, : clarity
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

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Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by cavediver, posted 01-19-2010 4:51 AM Sasuke has replied

  
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 78 of 156 (543561)
01-19-2010 6:43 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by cavediver
01-19-2010 4:51 AM


Re: E=MC(Einstein, 1879-1955).
cavediver,
in my previous Chemistry course at the local community college it was taught that mass is a measurement of volume which is different than weight because its not affected by gravity. No matter where you measure a piece of matter(same piece of matter) you will get the same measurement if you measure in grams(to get mass). Where as if you weigh something in lbs its weight will change depending on the location due to gravity. So if mass is a measurement of volume and energy has mass then why does that not = that energy is matter? I mean if something has a mass it must be made of material and hence therefor it is matter.
Edited by Sasuke, : clarity
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : edit
Edited by Sasuke, : edit

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 Message 74 by cavediver, posted 01-19-2010 4:51 AM cavediver has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Rahvin, posted 01-19-2010 12:31 PM Sasuke has replied

  
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