EvC Forum: MRSA - would you?

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Topic: MRSA - would you?

ICANT

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Message 17 of 68 (530567)
10-14-2009 4:09 AM

Reply to: Message 13 by Izanagi
10-14-2009 3:41 AM

Hi Izanagi,

Izanagi writes:

The problem is while many creationists accept that changes do occur, they arbitrarily draw a line and say, "but it stops here."

Have you ever thought about some of us creationists being raised on a farm and have had first hand experience with micro evolution? You don't even need a lab to experiment with it.

But for the changes that require thousands or millions of years there is no scientific verifiable evidence for those things happening. It can not be reproduced in a lab much less on a farm.

It is just a conclusion that some people have come to because they can not accept the alternative.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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	Message 13 by Izanagi, posted 10-14-2009 3:41 AM		Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 21 by Izanagi, posted 10-14-2009 4:29 AM		ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 24 of 68 (530574)
10-14-2009 4:54 AM

Reply to: Message 21 by Izanagi
10-14-2009 4:29 AM

Re: Drawning a line

Hi Izanagi,

Ianagi writes:

But that's my point. You've arbitrarily drawn a line and said that changes can't accumulate over time to produce something that is much different than what it was before.

The only line I have drawn is this one.

You have no scientific verifiable evidence for macro evolution.

There will never be such evidence as no one lives long enough to do the experiments.

You can wish, dream, hope even have faith that it did take place. But you can't produce scientific verifiable evidence that one critter can become a competely different critter.

Izanagi writes:

A phone from 20 years ago is much different from a phone now because of the accumulated changes we've made to the phone. But both phones still perform the same basic function.

So the phone is still a phone regardless of what is looks like or how many improvements we have made to it.

Izanagi writes:

Mountains shrink into hills because of erosion. Flat land is turned into a valley by rivers. Mountains are created from flat land through plate tectonics.

It is all still dirt and rock makes no difference what shape it is in.

Izanagi writes:

We can't see it happening, but we can infer from the evidence that such a process has occurred and is occurring. Why? Because we know small accumulation of changes do change something into something a bit different.

A bit different something is a lot different that competely different something.

You can conclude anything you want to. But that does not make it science.

Macro evolution is not science. It is the notions of men.

Izanagi writes:

Your alternative is unprovable

No more unprovable than macro evolution.

They both have to be believed and accepted by faith.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 21 by Izanagi, posted 10-14-2009 4:29 AM		Izanagi has replied

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ICANT

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Message 27 of 68 (530578)
10-14-2009 5:06 AM

Reply to: Message 23 by Izanagi
10-14-2009 4:42 AM

Re: Bacteria

Hi Izanagi,

Izanagi writes:

MRSA did by becoming resistant to an antibiotic

Are you saying the bacteria by becoming resistant to an antibiotic is macro evolution?

If so has it ceased to be a bacteria?

Or is it just an antibiotic resistant bacteria?

If that is the case then it only adapted to its enviroment.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 23 by Izanagi, posted 10-14-2009 4:42 AM		Izanagi has replied

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	Message 32 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-14-2009 5:16 AM	ICANT has not replied
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	Message 44 by Izanagi, posted 10-14-2009 8:41 AM	ICANT has replied

ICANT

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Message 49 of 68 (530650)
10-14-2009 12:02 PM

Reply to: Message 40 by Izanagi
10-14-2009 7:43 AM

Re: Drawning a line

Hi Izanagi,

Izanagi writes:

Fine, then stop calling ID science. Don't argue the "science" of ID. Call it what it really is - religion.

Izanagi, I have been here since March 2007. You can search my profile threads I have participated in and you will never find one, NOT ONE where I called ID science. In fact you will find quite the opposite.

I think those that promote such are delusional, being deluded by Satan.

Creation has to be accepted by faith. Once a person is born again they will have all the evidence they need. But there is no way of sharing that evidence with anyone, because to the natural man it is foolishness.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Once a person accepts that God is, he has no problems with anything else.

Just like those who accept that the universe existed at T=10^-43 have no problem with the BBT.

Just like those that accept that life came from non life have no problem with evolution.

All three are based on assumptions.

Therefore all three are based on "FAITH".

Now if anyone has scientific verifiable evidence for any of the three I would love to see it.

In 30 months of asking for such evidence none has been presented.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 40 by Izanagi, posted 10-14-2009 7:43 AM		Izanagi has not replied

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ICANT

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Posts: 6769

From: SSC

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Message 50 of 68 (530658)
10-14-2009 12:35 PM

Reply to: Message 44 by Izanagi
10-14-2009 8:41 AM

Re: Bacteria

Izanagi writes:

As you said, macroevolution is just adding on more information. The bacteria added more information and therefore macroevolved.

You are putting words in my fingers as I have never typed or said that.

Izanagi writes:

What this bacteria has done has evolved, but it is still on the road to becoming something else.

What is that something else?

Then in the next sentence you qualify that something else.

Izanagi writes:

I have no doubt that it will become a new species of bacteria, which evolution predicts.

So it became a modified version of the same thing not something else.

Izanagi writes:

If enough changes occur, then a new species is "born."

And as long as it remains the same critter it does not produce macro evolution.

Give me scientific evidence of where any critter ceased to be that critter and became a totally different critter.

Izanagi writes:

Again, evolution is a slow process, but adaptation to the environment is one step in that process.

Why does the fossil record show things appearing all of a sudden and not over a long period of time?

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 44 by Izanagi, posted 10-14-2009 8:41 AM		Izanagi has replied

Replies to this message:
	Message 51 by Blzebub, posted 10-14-2009 1:48 PM	ICANT has replied
	Message 57 by Izanagi, posted 10-14-2009 4:16 PM	ICANT has not replied

ICANT

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Posts: 6769

From: SSC

Joined: 03-12-2007

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Message 52 of 68 (530699)
10-14-2009 2:52 PM

Reply to: Message 51 by Blzebub
10-14-2009 1:48 PM

Re: Bacteria

Hi Blzebub,

Blzebub writes:

Define "totally different". Humans separated from chimps about 6 million years ago. We had a common ancestor.

Can you provide verifiable scientific evidence of this common ancestor?

Or is this another one of them we know it is so because we believe it and accept it to be so.

Blzebub writes:

But this thread is about one kind of "critter", Staph. aureus, becoming MRSA, which is, I guess, a different kind of "critter".

But they are both the same type of critter as they are bacteria just different versions. Like a Ford car and a Chevrolet car. They are very different but both are a car.

God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
	Message 51 by Blzebub, posted 10-14-2009 1:48 PM		Blzebub has replied

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