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Author | Topic: Is Evolution Intellectually Viable? | |||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: What is the barrier to macroevolution?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Philip:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by schrafinator:
quote: quote: Define "mega-evolution" Define "exquizitely-complexifying organism".
quote: Define "Exquisitely complex".
quote: Define "higher animal".
quote: This is irrelevant. Just because a particular existing enyme pathway is necessary for a particular function, does not mean that someenzyme pathway might have arisen instead. All the ToE predicts is an outcome, not neccessarily a particular outcome.
quote: Define "mega-evolve". Define "mega-devolve". Define "detriment" in this context.
quote: Unless you have infinite knowledge of the future, you cannot say that ANYTHING in nature is "fixed and maximally-fine-tuned."
quote: Irrelevant. Evolution is simply change; some changes to the genome be for the better, a few for worse, and most to no effect. Whther it is "detrimental" is dependent upon the environment. There is no barrier to macroevolution here. This is basic stuff, Philip, that we have been over before.
quote: Care to provide evidence that circulatory systems do not change?
quote: When nearsighted people get eaten by tigers again, evolution will have a greater influence on human eyesight. What strict limits you wish to require of both science and nature! There are limits because Philip says there are limits. I understand now. What was I thinking? How foolish of me. How do you explain the immunity or resistance to HIV that some people (whose ancestors survived the Black Plague) have? The Plague was also an auto-immune disease which tricked the body into killing it's own lymphocytes, just like HIV does. Nature selected, through a random mutation, these people to survive through their slightly different immune system.
quote: So what? The ToE doesn't predict that systems came about suddenly, but were a gradual development of additions and deletions and redundancies.
quote: You are, once again, ignoring NATURAL SELECTION. You really do have a profound misunderstanding of how evolution works.
quote: STRAWMAN!!! The ToE does not postulate that ANY of these things sprang up spontaneously! Gosh, haven't you learned this yet? I swear I have told you this a dozen times if I have told you once, and that is just me! You sure write a lot of words, Philip, but maybe if you read a bit more about the subject you are denying, you would make a lot more sense. You know, quality over quantity?
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nator Member (Idle past 2200 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Examples of this, please. Please explain where in Evolutionary Biology this is predicted to occur.
quote: You didn't really define anything. Provide examples of what you mean from living organisms, please.
quote: This is irrelevant. Just because a particular existing enyme pathway is necessary for a particular function, does not mean that someenzyme pathway might have arisen instead.
quote: There are detrimental effects possible in all stages of evolution. What you would need to be correct is for ALL effects of enzyme evolution to be detrimental, and this is not the case. Remember the nylon-digesting bacteria?
quote: You have not demonstrated these barriers. All the ToE predicts is an outcome, not neccessarily a particular outcome.
quote: What makes you think that nything in evolution simply "falls into place"? Methinks thais is yet another variety of "Philip's Argument from Incredulity", or, "I. Philip, can't believe X, therefore X had to have God cause it!"
quote: Huh? Vestigials are evidence of devolution? On what planet?
quote: How is this a problem for Evolution?
quote: Unless you have infinite knowledge of the future, you cannot say that ANYTHING in nature is "fixed and maximally-fine-tuned."
quote: Cite please.
quote: Irrelevant. Evolution is simply change; some changes to the genome be for the better, a few for worse, and most to no effect. Whther it is "detrimental" is dependent upon the environment. There is no barrier to macroevolution here.
quote: ...OK, here we go...
quote: That's nice. What does that have to do with evolution?
quote: You have not demonstrated any barrier to speciation with this example. All you have displayed is your incredulity. added by edit: Are you therefore saying that all feet of all people are the same?
quote: Care to provide evidence that circulatory systems do not change?
quote: Huh? What the heck does this have to do with evolution?
quote: So, you ARE claiming to have infinite knowledge of all future generations of humans until the end of time! Really, Philip, you are making silly "it is so because I say it's so" claims.
quote: So sez you.
quote: When nearsighted people get eaten by tigers again, evolution will have a greater influence on human eyesight.
quote: What? This makes no sense. My point is that the genetic basis of nearsightedness is not likely to be reduced in the population because instead of the nearsighted people getting killed off by predators, being in car accidents, etc., we have invented the means to correct their vision artificially. They then get to reproduce at roughly the same rate as those with normal vision, so the genetic material remains in the population.
quote: quote: Do you reject all fossil evidence which shows transitions between species?
quote: quote: Baseless opinion. How do you explain the immunity or resistance to HIV that some people (whose ancestors survived the Black Plague) have? The Plague was also an auto-immune disease which tricked the body into killing it's own lymphocytes, just like HIV does.
quote: The pre-existing elements (a copying mistake) were there through God's intention? Then can I also assume that ALL mutations, even those that cause horrible genetic diseases, are there because God made them that way on purpose? If not, then what criterion can we use to tell the God-caused mutations from the ordinary random mutations? What about all those genetics experiments where scientists manipulate certain genes? Is God directing those, too?
quote: quote: I thought that luck had nothing to do with it? Care to retract your statement that immune systems can't evolve?
quote: Yes. It's too bad that the US doesn't allow gay marriage, and thus encourage gay people to be monogomous. Then again, the rate of AIDS is dropping in the Gay community and rising fastest among heteros.
quote: So what? The ToE doesn't predict that systems came about suddenly, but were a gradual development of additions and deletions and redundancies.
quote: How many is "too many". Argument from personal incredulity. Just because Philip thinks there are "too many" doesn't mean "Godidit".
quote: You are, once again, ignoring NATURAL SELECTION.
quote: Natural selection OS the farsighted view that is supportd by the evidence. Mutation happens in an instant; NS has effects over millions of years.
quote: You are also arrogant in your notion that if Philip can't imagine it, it must not be true.
quote: Please explain the barrier which would prevent macroevolution.
quote: quote: Heavens, you constantly make up your own terminology, are utterly vague when asked for definitions, and constantly claim that, "Golly, speciation just can't happen because I just can't believe it!"
quote: quote: quote: You specifically claimed that whole organs and systems should arise spontaneously in an Evolutionary model, and this is NOT TRUE. It isn't my problem that you cannot seem to be able to absorb this information, and if you are tired of being corrected, perhaps you might consider not making the claim in the future. Am I to assume that you do not accept that transitional fossils exist? Might I inquire as to what you would accept as a transitional fossil? Then we can look and see if such a fossil exists. Perhaps a fossil with both dinosaur and bird characteristics? Or both land mammal and water mammal characteristics? Why would I think that you understand Evolution if you continue to make such silly claims about it?
quote: quote: Appeal to education and clarity. {Tried to clean up quote structure as best I could - Adminnemooseus [This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-15-2002] [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 11-17-2002]
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