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Author Topic:   The Faith "Great Debate" sedimentation and erosion topic
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 30 of 45 (193907)
03-24-2005 2:59 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Percy
03-23-2005 10:44 PM


Re: Suggestion for Jazzns
Unfortunately the picture isn't available to me, either because my computer isn't powerful enough or because the website shut it down, which could be the case as when I click on "enlarge" it says it's unavailable.

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 Message 23 by Percy, posted 03-23-2005 10:44 PM Percy has replied

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 Message 31 by Percy, posted 03-24-2005 7:38 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 34 of 45 (194055)
03-24-2005 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Percy
03-23-2005 10:44 PM


Re: Suggestion for Jazzns
When Faith talks about erosion leaving a flat surface, I wonder if she might be thinking about uneven rates of erosion due to different hardnesses of the material being eroded. For example, here's a photo from Monument Park in Arizona:
Now the picture is coming through. Yes I do think about rates of erosion having to do with different hardnesses. The stepped shape of the walls of the Grand Canyon show this kind of differential erosion, probably also the pattern of runoff from the top of the canyon, taking more from the top layers than the lower layers.
The erosion within the layers of the canyon is supposed to have occurred upon an already pretty flat surface, as these surfaces were supposedly built up over great periods of time, most of them underwater where they would have been quite horizontal. I've been thinking of erosion UPON a flat table-like surface over the millions of years supposed for any given layer -- or whatever relatively shorter period (half a million being conservative?) that layer is thought to have been out of water. Seems to me rivulets would have starting cutting into the surface and eventually spread out taking a lot of material with it over huge periods of time, making short order of the flat table-like appearance. It would have dumped sediments moved from it somewhere else in no particular configuration, the whole thing being an incoherent mess at the end of the supposed millions of years.
She might be wondering why the layers of the Grand Canyon have no buried structures like this that were first eroded into this uneven shape, then covered over again by deposition.
I'm sure it's an interesting story. What the monuments look like to me is islands of some kind of layering, left after water removed everything in the surrounding area. The tops look like something that was pushed upward, then the whole thing eroded first by more water than that which cut the canyon, as it left the surrounding area denuded and flat for miles in all directions, then eroded by normal weathering since then.
So what's the real story?

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 Message 23 by Percy, posted 03-23-2005 10:44 PM Percy has not replied

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 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 03-24-2005 3:42 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1475 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 36 of 45 (194202)
03-24-2005 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
03-24-2005 3:42 PM


Rivulets etc.
Seems to me rivulets would have starting cutting into the surface and eventually spread out taking a lot of material with it over huge periods of time, making short order of the flat table-like appearance.
======
Water follows the lowest path avaliable, so wouldn't the waters concentrate into the first cutting? It seems to me that what you'd wind up with is a flat table with a big channel carved out, following the meanders of the rivulet that began it.
That crossed my mind but I figured water is coming at this area from many directions, including rain from above, and this is a LARGE area after all, acres at the very least. If one rivulet could get started across a flat surface others also would, many of them, and then of course eventually some grooves will get deepened and some channels become quite deep and so on. The layer won't be perfectly flat either and the water will head for the lower areas. But remember, this is happening over how many years? ONE layer of sediment how deep? I've wondered if it would be possible to set up an experiment by spreading out flat wet clay in a field and letting it harden a bit and then run water across it or sprinkle water from overhead to see what happens. How does water travel across the Great Salt Lake or other dry bed? It ought to be possible to set up smaller versions on the kitchen table and come to some kind of conclusion even. I'm sure some scientists have already conducted these kinds of experiments. We should probably ask them.
This message has been edited by Faith, 03-24-2005 06:37 PM

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 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 03-24-2005 3:42 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by crashfrog, posted 03-24-2005 9:24 PM Faith has not replied

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