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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Uniformitarianism | |||||||||||||||||||
edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: Actually, uniformitarianism doesn't mitigate against the flood. It is the lack of evidence that acts against the flood. You have been reading too many creationist writings on unformitarianism. They uniformly misunderstand the concept.
quote: What huge beds are you talking about? Show us a formation that is worldwide. The last time you talked about sand beds that covered half a continent you were soundly refuted. Can you do better this time?
quote: First you have to show us a huge, worldwide bed and then you can make such a judgement. Exactly where in the geological record is the flood deposit?
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
quote: You have completely misunderstood your source. It said that preservation of the coal is related to the presence of overlying sands. There is not a causative relationship. Check it out more closely.
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
I understand what the evidence looks like through old earth spectacles. I wouldn't argue with you on the founding principles of geology. However, I am currently looking into creationwiki's claim on superposition. Perhaps you could input your opinion on THIS article?
TW, obvioulsy the article is clever nonsense, designed to take advantage of your geological ignorance. Tell us one thing, do you really believe that geologists have not thought about these things? That perhaps we have not seen this type of sedimentation?
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
It's in the first paragraph! What else can be said? It's an assumption. And an assumption, like uniformitarianism, can be validated by testing against it. I am not saying that it hasn't been tested against, nor that some data has supported it. What I am trying to convey is that if we replaced this assumption with another assumption like a catastrophic Flood Event, then we would find data that supports this assumption as well.
Ummm, no. That was tried and rejected about 200 years ago. Even with a bias toward a flood interpretation, it was eventualy abandoned. With good reason. Why to backwards?
And we have, and in IMO, a much more satisfying picture of the current geology.
You opinion is duly noted. However, it is not shared by the overwhelming majority of researchers in the field. Why should we give your opinion any credence?
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
In uniformitarianism there exists a paradox.
Please explain. You are being vague here.
As was the case of the Mt. St. Helens eruptions, there are things that can be accepted without invoking uniformitarianism and millions of years of evolution.
Ummm,no. That doesn't quite do it. What is it about MSH that produces a paradox?
Paraconformities, virtually no erosion between "ages" of rock strata, erosion today that doesn't exist in the geologic column, mysteries of geology easier explained by a catastrophic flood, the ice age and the sequential bioemergence, also the fossils themselves raise serious doubt as to the fossilization probability and mass grave sites.
I know that you are excited about this topic, but maybe some more punctuation would help. This is not a very clear statement. Why do you say that paraconformities doe not exist today? This is clearly incorrect. What do you think we see in places like Monument Valley or the Kaibab Uplift? You make several assertions here, but fail to back them up with evidence or an explanation.
More things to mention and further instances to examine, all of these logically lead one to remain skeptical of the evolutionary model.
One what?
Galileo was mocked and ridiculed for not falling in line with the modern view of the world, also Copernicus.
Bad analogy. Here, Galileo was proposing something new. In this case YEC is an old and discarded theory.
I don't believe my ancestors were mice or that we share a common ancestor with apes.
Your opinion is noted and you are welcome to it.
I'm not denying "evidence" in favor of an untested idea, as you would claim. I am exercising my logic and reason to commit to a reality far more probable.
Then why do you post 'evidence' in quotes? And what untested idea are you referring to?
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
I agree that I (a creationist) would examine the evidence to fit the model of creation. However, if you honestly believe that the Theory of Evolution has not done the same then you are truly delusional.
This is nonsense. Once again, you provide no evidence to back up your assertion.
From homology to embryology ...
Well, if you have a better explanation, we would be glad to discuss it.
...to those missing links, ...
Sure, ignore the existing links...
...the theory of evolution and common ancestory has failed.
Curious how so few people have noticed this. Why is that?
Because it tried to fit the evidence within the confines of the theory.
Now, it couldn't be that ToE actually works in explaining the observations, could it? But again, you are not specific. Just saying "embryology" doesn't give us much to go on, and, in fact strays pretty far from the topic of this thread.
If you want to classify creationists in this group, you might as well add evolutionists.
So, if this is how scientists operate, how did ToE ever take hold?
, your very subtle maneuver of grouping evolutionism with science is remarkably well conceived. Perhaps if I didn't know any better I might think that evolutionism is a fact.
Maybe that's because we call it the 'Theory of Evolution'. I don't suppose you agree that theories are part of science.
aps, I will join you in a discussion about radiometric dating. Not now though.
My guess is that you really don't want to go there.
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edge Member (Idle past 1735 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined: |
Oh how you now me so well. Astonishing.
Time to switch to decaf, TW. The point is that we have seen many 'reasonable' YECs come through here and found them to show their true colors after just a few posts. Really, there isn't much new in YECdom.
In fact, I am in the process of developing upon an alternative theory for the popular view of the formation of the Grand Canyon and many other Uniformitarian riddled geological structures.
Yep, heard it all before.
You'd rather poison the well than actually engage in a productive discussion; a discussion where you don't use so many logical fallacies.
By your attitude, it is pretty clear that the well is alread poisoned. It's really hard to hide these things, TW.
Is this a joke? I don't care whose bed catholicism climbs in with, but please refrain from using such outright ignorant arguments. Catholicism is a long way off from Biblical Creation. Pathetic attempt at persuasion.
Still drinking from at that same well, eh?
No shock there, define evolution in the broadest most general way so that evolutionism can get away with stating that evolution is a fact and that the theory explains this fact. Bah!
Heh, heh...
Clever, attack and retreat. You misrepresented so much of what I said, you think I was just going to ignore it? You try to poison the well with remarks like, "Rants against evolution, with silly assertions about the way science functions," that is a complete misrepresentation of anything that I typed. Your sentiments are ludicrous.
Unlike you, eh?
quote:Actually, I agree with you uniformitarianism is in. The way we look at it now is called actualism. In other words, some of the processes have changed because we recognize that some of the conditions have changed. Actualism - Wikipedia this has nothing to do with Geology. Because you can't just start re-defining things as counter arguments come against your beliefs. The only argument you can muster is one from semantics. Avoid the controversy by putting up semantical speed bumps.
Actually, this is not the geological definition of actualism. It is more like my description above.
quote:WEll, then you'll have to debate the guys from before the 20th century. Most of us do not agree with this literal reading. The processes have changed. The physical laws regarding the processes are the same, however. Which ultimately is an idea forced upon an idea of an old earth. The two have become inseparable, unless you enforce semantical speed bumps to confound opposition.
Well, then you need to refute uniformitarianism. Not the old Lyellian version, but the modern version. If you refuse to do that, you are wasting our time.
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