Against the LAW?

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And we get the idea Schraf, you have your panties in a wad. Sorry.

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Wow, that was a rather bitchy thing to say.

I'm sorry, but Is patently false logic.Some people like being bullies, and some people like watching bullies beat up other people, therefore being a bully is okay and does not inherently hurt anyone ....You are confusing some for all -- that some people like {X} does not mean that nobody is hurt by {X}.What you are saying really is only that AND it does NOT show that ALL people are not inherently hurt by such programs. You missed this point too. I wasn't talking about contestants, but people in the general population with these disorders.The reason for the disorder is poor self-image along with an irrational belief in what constitutes socially acceptable standards of being good looking. That standard is - in part - enforced by every beauty pagent, with every article about them, with every ad that promotes them, as well as in other ads and promotions of artificial beauty standards: beauty pagents are just the icing on the cake.And yes, I would expect people with these disorders to try to avoid being bombasted by such exhibitions as much as they could, as it forces them to compare how badly they measure up (in their minds).The standard is wrong. And yes, SOME people are hurt by it.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

Yeah, women are just a commodity eh? Shall we have an auction?

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Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

You were arguing that nobody was hurt by them. That doesn't reflect the reality. What I don't like:It's artificial
It's subjective
It's a dual standard on what is valuable about a person.
It's uneccessaryIt doesn't contribute anything of value.

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Join the effort to unravel {AIDS/HIV} {Protenes} and {Cancer} with Team EvC! (click)

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we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand

​

RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.

The beauty pageant really is rather a female counterpart to male athletics. Both events involve sexual display in ritualized forms.You're not going to stop sexual display. Boys will be boys, and girls will be girls.That's no reason to like every form displays take. Feeling pressure from the thoughtless 'ideals' created by these things can be a problem, especially for the young. What they need most is help finding ways to be more original.Some basic natural imperatives behind the rituals, if understood, can find wider and more personally fulfilling applications. One can invent one's own displays once one understands the principles of the basic game. There's no need to follow the crowd. It only takes two playing your game for both of you to win.Sexual attractiveness depends on the perception of good health, abundant energy, and confidence. A variety of reproductive priorities has made physical beauty a more valued attribute in females and accomplishment a more valued attribute in males. These natural pressures easily become caricatures of themselves through habits of thought and commercial exploitation of the natural interest everyone takes in sex. But smart people don't have to accept everything as a given in so unconscious a fashion. No need to be unsexy, either. Smart people can be original.Rainer Maria Rilke spoke wisely of the 'burden' carried by each sex. He described a true love relationship as one in which each partner understood the burden born by the other and helped their loved one carry it._

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

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There's no need to follow the crowd.

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But we have a much, much easier time of it socially if we fit in to the crowd.Attractive people are treated better and get more preferential treatment by everybody. Attractive babies are smiled at and looked after more diligently by their mothers than unattractive babies.Yes, an individual doesn't have to buy in to what society claims they must look like to be considered attractive, but each individual still has to live and function inside of this society with the "hive mentality".I can't go anywhere (not even my Yahoo e-mail account) without seeing at least one ad for how I could be thinner, look younger, get rid of cellulite, or reduce lines and wrinkles.I can tell you as an American woman that it is exhausting to constantly defend against the bombardment that shouts and flashes at me from nearly every quarter.

Many years ago I read an interview with Dustin Hoffman. He talked about filming Tootsie. The role required him to wear female makeup in many of his scenes. The makeup crew tried out the effect of different versions of the look by taking the actor out to restaurants as he wore it. Hoffman said playing the female role in public made him feel keenly the way women are assessed by their appearance. He said the pressure was constant. And men were not the only people applying it. The cruelest judges, he said, were other women.Some years after that I read an interview with the mezzo-soprano Frederica Von Stade. Her voice type required her to sing male characters on stage as often as female characters. Her most famous role was the male teenager in Figaro. She said playing that character all her life, together with the experience of becoming a parent herself, made her appreciate the pressures on the young man. No matter what happens to him, she said, he has to be strong and never cry. If he gets hurt he can expect little of the sympathy a girl his age will get. If the army calls him, he must shoulder his musket and march off, no self-pity.She said she often wanted to compare notes with Dustin Hoffman._

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ArcherAll species are transitional.

Ever heard the song When I Was A Boy by Dar Williams?

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But we have a much, much easier time of it socially if we fit in to the crowd.

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Attractive people are treated better and get more preferential treatment by everybody. Attractive babies are smiled at and looked after more diligently by their mothers than unattractive babies.

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Yes, an individual doesn't have to buy in to what society claims they must look like to be considered attractive, but each individual still has to live and function inside of this society with the "hive mentality".

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I can't go anywhere (not even my Yahoo e-mail account) without seeing at least one ad for how I could be thinner, look younger, get rid of cellulite, or reduce lines and wrinkles.

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I can tell you as an American woman that it is exhausting to constantly defend against the bombardment that shouts and flashes at me from nearly every quarter.

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Im severly inclined to disagree. (btw, You cannot list online banner ads as valid proof)
Im sorry, but what is wrong with you?! Hive mentallity?Babies are cared for more if theyre pretty?! your sytem works, but only if the subjects already have that brainwashed mindset. Case in point, YOU. There are multiple mainstream catagories for an adolescant or even an adult; but those labels are applied to the product, not fitted for them.What shallow dregs of insecurity and weakness are you pulling your ideas from? It exhausts you to ignore something? In america our youth are all taught how to be different; uniqueness is accented. Edited by Damouse, : No reason given.

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-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

Aren't female sports, such as women's golf, volleyball, and basketball the counterpart to male athletics? What? Something tells me that most men don't watch Moday Night Football for the ritualistic sexual displays. I think you are reading into it too deeply with Darwinian glasses.

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But we have a much, much easier time of it socially if we fit in to the crowd.

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Attractive people are treated better and get more preferential treatment by everybody. Attractive babies are smiled at and looked after more diligently by their mothers than unattractive babies.

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Yes, an individual doesn't have to buy in to what society claims they must look like to be considered attractive, but each individual still has to live and function inside of this society with the "hive mentality".

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I can't go anywhere (not even my Yahoo e-mail account) without seeing at least one ad for how I could be thinner, look younger, get rid of cellulite, or reduce lines and wrinkles.

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I can tell you as an American woman that it is exhausting to constantly defend against the bombardment that shouts and flashes at me from nearly every quarter.

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Schraf and I rarely find ourselves in agreement over anything, but her post here makes valid points, and there is a scientific basis for what she said. She isn't saying that its right, to the contrary, she is merely saying that its the reality and that its a sad mark on a society so imbued with outward appearances.Attractive people are treated better, right or wrong, it happens. Even babies look upon a symmetrical face longer than one with less symmetry. As for the ads on bueaty, who among us, particularly in America, can deny that we are innundated by images of what society expects of its males and females?This isn't some pop pyschology that she presenting. Its rooted in reality.

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"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt

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Attractive people are treated better, right or wrong, it happens. Even babies look upon a symmetrical face longer than one with less symmetry. As for the ads on bueaty, who among us, particularly in America, can deny that we are innundated by images of what society expects of its males and females?

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I utterly disagree. Again, i believe that you focus to much on topical beauty. Even in school, people are treated on how they act, not how they look. Looks only matter for the first impression, after that, its actions, always. Do you (plural again) treat people differently depending on their looks? A perfect counter example is genetic deformity. A child who is born disfigured will usually get more attention and devotion from their parents, and they are not anything to look at physically.Why so shallow? Schools dont care. Employers dont care. Government doesnt care. There is no proof that people are indeed treated better by their physical charecteristics.To leave on a point: can i assume that neither of you have children? Can someone who does have children stop here and drop their two cents as to which child they favor more, if any?Edited by Damouse, : No reason given.

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-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

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Im severly inclined to disagree. (btw, You cannot list online banner ads as valid proof)

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Why are they not valid proof? I am constantly bombarded with ads aimed at me, a female, trying to sell me stuff that will make me thinner, have less cellulite, have fewer wrinkles, and get me dates.This is just from my yahoo mail. It doesn't count the innumerable women's magazines prominently displayed at every grocery store checkout line, the commercials on TV, the billboards on highways, the junk snail mail I get every day, etc. There is also the more subtle pressure from the sort of people who are depicted as attractive and desireable on the tv shows, in the movies, in the catalogues, etc.

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Im sorry, but what is wrong with you?! Hive mentallity?

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Yes. Human social conditioning. Ingroup/Outgroup.

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Babies are cared for more if theyre pretty?!

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Yes, they are.(Wasn't able to find the original research in a quick search, but will if you need me to. Just ask. In the meanime, here is a second hand source.)

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your sytem works, but only if the subjects already have that brainwashed mindset.

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As you can see, that is certainly not the case.

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Case in point, YOU. There are multiple mainstream catagories for an adolescant or even an adult; but those labels are applied to the product, not fitted for them.

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I don't understand what this means.

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What shallow dregs of insecurity and weakness are you pulling your ideas from?

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I'll thank you to refrain from the personal insults in the future.

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It exhausts you to ignore something?

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Yes, when it has been in my face as a daily, consistent message for my entire life, it does become exhausting to turn around and ignore it.

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In america our youth are all taught how to be different; uniqueness is accented.

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I am sorry, but you are living in a fantasy world if you think that this is what is considered socially acceptable in schools in America.I I used to work in a town with a large university in it. Every year, a new crop of kids would come in and it was remarkable how similar they all looked. The boys, especially. The uniform was as follows:Jeans or kakhis, baggy. Polo shirts or t-shirts, also pretty baggy. Baseball caps, turned backwards in the late 90's, but that was out by the 2000's. North Face jackets, always in muted colors. Short hair, but not too short, and mussed up, but not too mussed.Now, why do you think they all dressed so incredibly similar to each other?Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

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There is no proof that people are indeed treated better by their physical charecteristics.

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Sure there is. Attractive people mae more moneyAttractive people get better medical treatmentAttractive people inspire trust more readilyAttractive professors tend to receive better evaluations from studentsInmates who became more attractive through cosmetic surgery were less likely to be convicted of a crime after release, even though they were just as likely to commit oneThere's more, if you would like to see it. Just let me know.Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.

How have you deduced this by my post? I'm not agreeing with it from a moral standpoint, I'm simply acknowleging that it exists. What school do you go to? Every school I've ever been to was rooted in a shallow, hollow outlook. No, I would rfesolve myself to look past mere appearance. But why you are acting like its a mystery is beyond me. Who is more likely to get a job? An obese person or a proportionate person? I'm not asking what you would do, I'm asking how society in general would decide. Well, parental love supersedes looks. But it isn't uncommon that a parent would secretly view their healthy child with a higher praise than their deformed child. Again, I'm not saying that its right, I'm just saying that it happens. Yes they do. Name me one disfigured president, eminent professor, CEO, or otherwise. If you can produce one I will consider reconsideration. I have two. I'm biased though because I think both my children are bueatiful, emotionally, physically, and mentally.I tried to upload a picture but I'm not very computer literate. If I figure it out I'll send an image. Edited by nemesis_juggernaut, : typoEdited by nemesis_juggernaut, : No reason given.

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"There is not in all America a more dangerous trait than the deification of mere smartness unaccompanied by any sense of moral responsibility." -Theodore Roosevelt