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Author Topic:   Lake Varve Sediments and the Great Flood
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 48 of 119 (443432)
12-24-2007 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Creationist
12-24-2007 10:11 PM


Re: Ignoring the off topic stuff
But the water is still. Also, no one suggests that catastrophic events continue forever. They do stop and when they do, the silt settles.
And when that happens the densest particles will settle before the others of the same size and largest particle will settle before smaller ones of the same density. They will NOT form alternating bands of one and then the other.
All the diatoms will settle before 99% of the silt settles and you will NOT get alternating layers of diatoms and silt.
You can't MAKE it happen.
There is no way you can explain multiple layers of alternating density or alternating size in varves without multiple periods of settling.
When some silts take days to settle you cannot create many layers in a year, even with optimum conditions, and you need to make thousands every day.
Enjoy.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Creationist, posted 12-24-2007 10:11 PM Creationist has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by jar, posted 12-24-2007 11:14 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 53 of 119 (443438)
12-24-2007 11:22 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Chiroptera
12-24-2007 5:22 PM


Re: Interpretations
(Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting.)
The data in the image above are radiocarbon dates for layers in several different phenomena. As you can see, they all match almost perfectly. The data includes very different phenomena, such as tree rings, lake varves, and mineral deposits in a cave.
Source please - this includes IntCal04 (Reimer) data...

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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 70 of 119 (443768)
12-26-2007 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Creationist
12-26-2007 5:37 PM


Re: Interpretations
And, of course, Michael Oard is a professional. Not that you could recognize one.
A professional meteroloagist (weatherman)
Not a geologist. What is his education in geology?
When you use the argument from authority logical fallacy it is useful to at least have your authority be in the correct field ...
Enjoy.

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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 76 of 119 (443805)
12-26-2007 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by edge
12-26-2007 7:35 PM


Re: Interpretations
In the meantime, please explain the concordance of varve counts with radiocarbon data from Lake Suigetsu.
Especially the correlation with varve count, depth of sediment and 14C age. From Message 259 of Age Correlations and an Old Earth: Version 1 No 3 (formerly Part III) ... which is also not answered by creationist.
See Message 249
Doing the same thing on that graph of varve and 14C dating versus sediment depth from Lake Suigetsu:
A 40,000-YEAR VARVE CHRONOLOGY FROM LAKE SUIGETSU, JAPAN: EXTENSION OF THE 14C CALIBRATION CURVE
quote:

Notice the correlation with age and depth and with the rate of deposit of the sediments, especially where it changes. The only issue with Lake Suigetsu I see is when they get beyond the level of the diatom layers, at about 37,930 years BP (before 1950, or 35,980 BCE).
And 37,930 BP is where the solid line becomes dashed. The age gets an offset (due to different atmospheric levels of 14C) but the pattern of deposition of the samples and the varves still match for different rates of deposit of sediment in the varves.
Explain that correlation while your mixing your magic mud samples.
AND put this little wrinkle into the equations, the 14C age is calculated based on the exponential decay curve:
How Carbon-14 Dating Works | HowStuffWorks
t = {ln (Nf/No)/ln (1/2)} x t1/2

where t is the "C-14 age", ln is the natural logarithm, Nf/No is the percent of carbon-14 in the sample compared to the amount in living tissue, and t1/2 is the half-life of carbon-14.
t = {ln (Nf/No)/-0.69315} x 5730
or
t = -8267 x ln (Nf/No)

Where No is the original level of the C-14 isotope in the sample (when it was alive and growing and absorbing atmospheric C-14), and Nf is the amount remaining. The value for No today is ~0.00000000010% of total organic carbon and Nf is smaller depending on how much time has passed.
This means you need this kind of shape for the 14C raw data compared to the varve raw data:
Enjoy.
Edited by RAZD, : curve information
Edited by RAZD, : -(2)

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by edge, posted 12-26-2007 7:35 PM edge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by edge, posted 12-26-2007 8:11 PM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1435 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 79 of 119 (443810)
12-26-2007 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by edge
12-26-2007 8:11 PM


Re: Interpretations
especially when you look at the curve of the 14C raw data that has to make this magic turn.

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we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
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