Setting the record straight on hunting accidents

Let's see... where was the 'line'? They had moved to a covey of quail being pointed by a dog. When a covey breaks they seldom fly in a line, at least the coveys I've hunted. I'm not familiar with the exact terrain where this happened but from the police report the guy was in a shallow area, below the sight line, and Cheney shot at a bird just above the vegetation. Quail love rolling terrain. A 28 gauge with birdshot, probably at least 7.5, at 30 yards is going to do little more than break the skin and is going to be a very open pattern. The shot that is in the heart got there through the blood circulatory system, not from the initial force.
If you were to hunt quail in the manner that has been discussed here you would never get a bird, at least not with a 28 gauge because the birds would be in too open a pattern after 20 yards to do any more than slightly cripple them. Bird shooting is not anything like big game hunting.
I'm not saying that Cheney isn't responsible, because he is. But if you're going to hang him for an act, the least you could do would be to know a bit about the act. As for a coverup, I doubt anyone in the party, and it sounds like about 6 or 8 people, were concerned about reporting it instead of taking care of the victim. The police were contacted within the hour and did investigate. I had a friend in high school blow off his calf muscle with a 12 gauge and the police weren't involved because it was an accident.(If you want a real coverup, consider the Marcy Park incident and locked offices.)

If you've hunted as much as you say you have then you know that on a covey break birds are going to fly behind people. The 'line' changes with the wind or terrain. The guy has stated that he came up on them and they didn't know he was there. Since he wasn't there, according to their knowledge, there was nothing dangerous about what Cheney did. Note that none of those Cheney was aware of were shot at. I agree that Cheney was ultimately responsible because the gun was in his hands, but the guy who was shot has stated that he should have let them know he was there.
If drinking a beer at lunch, hunting 3 hrs later and this accident happened at 5:30 is a mistake, I'll guarantee you that almost every hunter makes the same mistake almost every hunt. Again, that doesn't make it right but the idea that those who drink a beer wait over 5 hrs before hunting is just not 'of this world'. I would guess many of the hunters on this site have done worse.
Making it sound like Cheney didn't care because he 'sat down to eat' leaves out the idea that he sat down to eat with friends of the guy who was shot... did they not care either?
I wonder what would be said if it had been Slick Willie who had accidently shot someone... of course with him it would never have been an accident... nor would the victim have survived.

"No it doesn't. It changes ONLY based on where the other folk in the party happen to be."That is what I was talking about and what the guy who got shot stated. When he was shot he was not a member of the party... he'd left and didn't notify anyone he was returning. Cheney did not shoot at someone in the party.As for Slick, the question was what would be the charges if it weren't Cheney. I'm sure that he wouldn't be accused of all the things that Cheney has been. Not trying to change the subject, just trying to show how subjective the statments have been.

Sounds good, on paper. First of all we're talking quail, not dove. Second, if the dog was some kind of pointer, and the south is noted for breeding great pointing dogs, then the dog would be on point and the hunters would get situated and ready. Some dog owners want to flush the birds themselves. I've preferred, and trained my dogs to flush on command so that the birds will tend to fly away from me. I don't remember ever hunting quail with more than 3 people, but I've known many that do. In this case, according to the police report, the guy had been over 100 yds away from where the 2nd covey was located and the hunters had walked to. He said that he'd told them to go on while he hunted a couple of downed birds. (should've had a pointer that was also a retriever.)
All of your 'hot' and 'cold' means nothing if the party was split and 100 yds apart. As I said, Cheney did not shoot anyone in the party, the guy joining the group, as you've stated, should've let them know he was coming up on them. The guy stated he should've done that and doesn't hold Cheney responsible. I don't see how you could know more about it than he does! As for the 'shoulder high' idea, I've seen quail fly 10 feet off the ground and 2 feet off the ground... I guess they haven't all been told they are supposed to fly at shoulder height. However, your 'ideal' doesn't fit this situation either as the guy was shot at shoulder height, even though he was in a draw and basically hidden from the party. Sounds to me like Cheney was shooting at a low bird, could have been an injured bird, and the guy who had told them to leave him 100 yds back walked into a firing zone.
I'm sure you've always gone over the ridge to make sure there was no one there before you shot at anything, even if your line is 'hot'.

"And there is no firing zone behind the line. So let's get this straight, now according to you Cheney has threatened everybody in the party by sweeping them, shot someone behind the line, someone in a ditch and lower them him. What a dork."You'll say anything to blame someone who everyone on the scene doesn't blame.
You're the one who set up this imaginary 'line'. You're the one who says that Cheney threatened everyone in your 'line' by sweeping them with the shotgun. Would this be a good point to mention that there are 2 points on a line that a person can sweep and not endanger anyone... either end. A person in either of those positions could swing on a bird without endangering anyone, unless that person came up on them without letting them know, as the guy said he did. You laugh at a low flying bird, which to me says you've not hunted in rolling terrain because quail tend to follow the terrain and would go over a rise into a draw low, especially if wounded.(which could or could not be the case) I've hunted quail where they could be lost in a draw 20 to 30 yards away. The guy said he was in a draw, lower than the hunters and thus would be difficult to see if one was following a bird. Have you read the police report?

"Yup, but TTBOMK it's still considered bad form to shoot the dogs."
Who said anything about shooting the dogs? The dog points the bird(s), they flush up and out just as you said. Unless the dog is extremely tall or the hunter is sitting on the ground, shooting over the dogs will not hit them. The dogs certainly would not even be in the picture with birds going anywhere except straight ahead.
Reading your construction of the event leads me more and more to believe that you've never hunted upland birds... unless in one of those shooting gallery huntclub stagings.

I would certainly doubt that any halfway serious quail hunters in Texas would go out without a dog. Where did you hear they had no dogs?
From what I read, the stamp is something new there and they only give warnings for those who don't have them. I also read that Cheney had sent in for a stamp, don't know if that was before or after.

I'll just accept that Cheney drank a whole beer a matter of seconds before being at one end of your line, swept the entire line with his shotgun, intentionally shot his friend sneaking up behind him, left him there for dead while dining with his hunting friends and plotting how to cover it all up. Of course that's what happened. That's why everyone there blames Cheney for being careless and trying to kill them and that's why the lawyer he killed is suing him and attacking his poor hunting skills.
I'm tired of your wild theories that refuse to follow the facts of the story. I guess everyone's wrong because they sure don't agree with your accessment.

What is an "American Pointer"?? I've had a couple English Pointers, one out of Oklahoma and one from Texas... both were great dogs but I've not even heard of an 'American'. Is that some new cross or something?Most 'big' hunters are more hat than substance. Personally, I question shooting anything with a 28 gauge, leaves too many cripples. But of course with that many labs, they should clear the field. I wonder why the guy was going after his bird instead of getting a dog to retrieve it. Maybe the dogs were all way ahead with the rest of the group.

So 'debate' here is setting up your own parameters and denegrating anyone who doesn't conform to them? I tried to discuss the reasonable situation as it appeared and as I've experienced. Others have brought in information that helped clarify, yet everyone was wrong. For them to be right, he had to be wrong.

I have stated that Cheney is responsible for his actions. However, for all the things that he has been accused of to be true, the police report must be false, all the hunting companions must be wrong and the guy who got shot must be wrong.
I'm looking at this through the perspective of what happens in the field, not from a textbook theory. I've never liked to hunt in large groups exactly for the possibility of someone getting 'lost'. That doesn't mean that I'm in favor of being dangerous with any gun.
It does mean that I don't like to hang a person one doesn't like by made up 'evidence'.

"Here’s something else to consider. The hunting party KNEW that Mr. Whittington had dropped back to recover a downed bird. There's absolutely no way Cheney, or anyone else in the group, should have pulled the trigger till they knew where the hell he was. Think about it...Cheney most certainly should have known that Mr. Whittington was behind him...that's where the friggen left him. Why then, did he follow the bird and shot in that direction? So, as jar has pointed out, Mr. Cheney broke a number of "rules" that resulted in this accident."Sounds like you haven't read the police report either. The guy went back to the vehicle about 100 yards away from the located covey. Then he decided to go to where they were. He should have announced that he was coming up behind them. In rolling terrain, 100 yards could be over a couple of rises, completely out of shotgun range and sight.
Again, people are 'hanging' Cheney because they don't like him and doing so on 'evidence' that isn't consistent with the members of the hunting party's statements.

What would you consider someone saying that Cheney swung his shotgun across everyone in the party and so broke his hunting 'rule'. There is no evidence that such a thing happened yet jar kept accusing Cheney of it and attacking him for doing such.Attacking people on manufactured evidence certainly is no way to 'debate'.

"Murphy, I don't know where you get the idea that we are talking about jar's rules here. We're not."I get that idea from reading your posts stating your rules and then saying that Cheney 'broke not one, not two, but every rule..."
You put this accident into your supposed circumstances and ignored the information available that clarified it, from those who investigated it and were involved in it. The only one who has blamed Cheney was Cheney himself, but for some reason you think that you know more than any of those present. Wittingham has claimed responsibility for it because he should have announced his rejoining the hunting party. You've accused Cheney of everything from pointing his shotgun at his friends to shooting the dogs! Read your posts and how you ignored everything except your opinion.

Sure seems to me that Ms. Armstrong, who was there, told what happened from what she saw. Was that the administration talking? Then her husband confirmed what she said. That must have been the administration. Then Wittingham himself told his side of the story, which was right in line with the Armstrongs' description. Is Wittingham the administration?The writer that you linked to, a site certainly prone to attacking the administration at every opportunity, tried to tie them all to the administration.Maybe the question should be just who is considered 'administration' by the left.