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Author Topic:   Hitler in the 21st century
Omnivorous
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Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 6 of 136 (411687)
07-21-2007 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Legend
07-21-2007 12:46 PM


I don't think an American Hitler could hope for anything more than a Republican seat in Congress.
Maybe a pulpit.

Real things always push back.
-William James
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Legend, posted 07-21-2007 12:46 PM Legend has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by jar, posted 07-21-2007 9:35 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 8 of 136 (411696)
07-21-2007 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jar
07-21-2007 9:35 PM


Re: American Hitler.
True. Ol' Hickory was a purely mean man and probably our best historical candidate for the job.
Now it would take a Muslim killer, I suppose, rather than an Indian killer, to vie for the position.

Real things always push back.
-William James
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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 13 of 136 (411748)
07-22-2007 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Legend
07-22-2007 5:45 AM


Things change
Maybe you were just wrong.
Perhaps your village has been accident free due to its bucolic character, but now younger folks are moving in and bustling about more aggressively, whether you see them or not. It may well be that the "proposing councillor" is responding to requests from residents who have observed changes in traffic patterns near the school.
It's hard for me to see how this proposal reflects a society that is "self-righteous, politically correct, responsibility-absolving."
Those proposing the changes may be wrong, of course. But I suspect that remaining accident-free in the face of demographic change (and if most residents are old-age pensioners, change is definitely on the way if not arriving) will require something more than benign neglect. If the spending is for no more than a few speed bumps and a little road work, then pointing out that saving one child's life makes that a bargain sounds quite legitimate.
At any rate, it's thin gruel for talk of Hitler.

Real things always push back.
-William James
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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Legend, posted 07-22-2007 5:45 AM Legend has replied

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 Message 14 by Legend, posted 07-22-2007 2:43 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 15 of 136 (411812)
07-22-2007 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Legend
07-22-2007 2:43 PM


Re: Things change
Legend writes:
the point isn't whether I'm wrong or right, it's about how self-righteous and politically-correct beliefs are used to justify and give legitimacy to almost anything. Instead of having a constructive dialogue with demonstrable evidence for or against any proposals, we have appeal to emotion and the 'right thing to do'.
The problem is that you have used an anecdote of local democracy to critique something you feel has global reach. If you are wrong about the local incident, then your global critique fails. That self-righteous, politically correct beliefs were and are used to justfity "almost anything" is merely your assertion: the merit of your case, so far, rests entirely on a local anecdote.
How are hundreds suffering? Because they have to slow down? Is this "a campaign of punishment for drivers"--or a reasonable public policy designed to prevent needless fatalities? How are drivers going to "end up losing their livelihood" in this case?
Speed limits in a local jurisdiction vary according to the local statutory authority; apparently, in your locale, the changes you object to were established through a democratic process: therefore, a democratic process of repeal is available to you. In my experience, elected representatives respond to community pressures in these sorts of situations--apparently some members of your community saw a need for these changes prior to any self-righteous, politically correct arguments being made at the council meeting.
You can mount all the campaigns you like, but you will not change the behavior of children, who lack the brain maturity to behave with the caution of adults. I am confident that you would not ascribe your child's grave injury or death at the hands of a speeding driver to your own failure to indoctrinate that child with perfect caution.
It seems to me that you are objecting to an nonideologically derived inconvenience--an inconvenience that you feel outweighs others' concerns for child safety.
Isn't it your emotive response that we see at work here?
Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

Real things always push back.
-William James
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Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Legend, posted 07-22-2007 2:43 PM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Legend, posted 07-23-2007 6:52 AM Omnivorous has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 32 of 136 (412103)
07-23-2007 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Legend
07-23-2007 6:52 AM


Re: Things change
I don't see anything to add.
Others in your community (or council) found an argument persuasive, you didn't, and it must mean the end of reason and the onset of fascism. Democracy didn't go out the window when an argument you find distasteful was presented and won the day--democracy means not always getting what you want.
All this because the speed limit went from 40 to 30? Anyone busted for 35 in a 30 four times is too stupid to hold a license.
It becomes even more apparent that the anecdotal juice behind your OP was (drum roll, maestro) an inconvenience.
You're just whining because you didn't get your way. So drag democracy back in the window: start a campaign, run for office, circulate a petition, educate your neighbors.
Or get over it.

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Legend, posted 07-23-2007 6:52 AM Legend has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Legend, posted 07-23-2007 7:28 PM Omnivorous has replied
 Message 50 by Tusko, posted 07-27-2007 4:05 PM Omnivorous has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 38 of 136 (412293)
07-24-2007 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Legend
07-23-2007 7:28 PM


Re: Things change
Legend writes:
quote:
All this because the speed limit went from 40 to 30? Anyone busted for 35 in a 30 four times is too stupid to hold a license.
Along the lines of: 'any Jew busted for being out of the ghetto after 9pm is too stupid to live'. Lovely.
Lovely? It doesn't take you long to resort to genocidal accusations over a trivial local dispute, does it? My family includes Jews and was decimated by the Holocaust. So you can stuff that particular bit of nasty.
Councils that don't do what you want presage Hitler; people who think 4-time-loser speeders in a quiet village are stupid are fascists.
Everyone's arguments are muddled but Legend's? Your opponents are self-righteous?
Priceless.
Edited by Omnivorous, : road rage typos

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Legend, posted 07-23-2007 7:28 PM Legend has not replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3991
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 6.9


Message 79 of 136 (414330)
08-03-2007 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by mick
08-03-2007 7:17 PM


Re: it's political correctness gone mad!!!
In the old days, the peasants were pleased to throw their children under the hooves of our steeds for our pleasure.
Ubi sunt such peasants, my friend, ubi sunt?

Real things always push back.
-William James
Save lives! Click here!
Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC!
---------------------------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by mick, posted 08-03-2007 7:17 PM mick has not replied

  
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