Abortion - Moments of (Mis)Conception

I've gone through it Rat...more so than you have...your girlfriend went thru it. Maybe you can tell ME what I'm suppose to feel.PAS, if it even exists, is not caused by abortion. It is caused by feelings of guilt, created by those who tell them what they did was wrong.Yes making the decision was hard, yes going thru with it was hard, yes there were feelings of sadness and guilt afterwards. The only long term issues I ever had with it were the rejection and accusations coming from friends.

I've spent many hours in the PAS support boards. I've joined and talked with these women. I've participated in the discussions. Yes, the stories can bring you to tears. But the issue isn't the abortion, its the societal guilt trips. Its being told you are wrong, its having people not accepting you. Most of the women I talked with on those boards had depression problems to begin with. When you are depressed and have people judging you for a decision you felt you had to make, of course it makes the depression worse. It becomes a form of OCD, these women start to obsess on the "wrong" decision they are told they made and build shrines to their "babies."No one has said there isn't real pain out there. They are saying that treating it as something other than depression and building it up into something it isn't is wrong. It does nothing but teach these women that they are right to feel bad. It perpetuates the punishment.

that's all i'm saying.

Asgara I did not get to hold a grandson. If it isn't the abortion why are so many of these women lying about what they feel was the problem?Why do so many say they regret having ab?Why do so many say they wish they had not done it? Then why do these 2400+ women believe they are suffering from pass.
At least most of them that I was able to read in the 3 hrs I spent reading them. Tell these women they are not suffering from pass.

Have you read this website, ICANT?Page not found - Welcome to I’m Not Sorry I'm Not Sorry . NetAn excerpt from the home page: Doe this answer your question about why women might be encouraged by the culture to feel guilty about her choice to abort? Edited by nator, : No reason given.

because someone lied to them.
why do billions of people believe in the "wrong god"?
because someone lied to them. what precisely did you teach your daughter about sexual responsibility and birth control? what did you teach her about the respect that others should hold about her body? what did you teach her about the fact that she deserves to have a man take responsibility for his contribution to the issue and use his own form of birth control. do you support research and approval of a male birth control pill? how does your daughter feel about her abortion? because, frankly, her feelings in the matter are more important than yours. if you wanted a baby, there are plenty in need of adoption.

Nobody says that there aren't people who are suffering.The point is, anti-choice propaganda sites lie about PASS.They lie about the existence of a consensus within the medical community regarding the syndrome.They lie about how common it is.They intentionally mislead, distort, and lie, and lie, and lie.

quote:

---

Asgara I did not get to hold a grandson.

---

So, your daughter or daughter-in-law is nothing more than a grandchild growing machine to you?A uterus with legs?It's HER body going through the stress, pain, and risks of pregnancy and childbirth. It's HER responsibility to feed, clothe, educate, love, and teach that child for several decades after it is born.Frankly, who cares what you want? Edited by nator, : No reason given.

When I googled "alien abduction support group", I got over 400,000 hits.There are thousands and thousands of people in the US who are experiencing great pain and suffering because they believe that they have been abducted by aliens. Many of them believe they have been experimented upon, often sexually, have had implants inserted into their bodies, etc.Many of them seek out support groups and thrapists to help them deal with this trauma. There are whole supportive online and real life communities built around this phenomena.Now, I am not saying that the women who experience pain and guilt about having abortions are making up their experiences. My point is that, just like the support community that has been built up around alien abduction, the PASS support community has often encouraged and contributed to the pain and emotional stress of women, not alleviated it.We must not discount the very real and very strong influence that group and peer pressure can have on individuals. "Support groups" and even therapists can easily encourage guilt, regret, and depression by telling the woman that she was wrong to do what she did. In other words, they encourage her to feel worse and worse.It is quite socially acceptable to be wracked with guilt about having an abortion, also. By contrast, it is not considered "normal" to have had an abortion and feel positive about the experience.Therefore, by having emotional trauma, women can be accepted into a group. They receive sympathy and attention.Lastly, the largest longitudinal study ever done on this subject showed that the single biggest determinant of a woman's mental state after an abortion is her mental state before an abortion.Unstable people (big surprise!) tend to be unstable, regardless of if they get abortions or not.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

asgara
nator
brennakimiI am totally against abortion for any purpose to me it is murder no different than me shooting you with my pistol,But I am against killing humans for any reason. Humans are special they are not animals.But I am also FOR helping all those millions of women who think they are suffering because of an ab. It makes no difference if it is real, self-inflicted, imaginary, or crammed down their throats by Fanatics of any kind, anti-abortion or pro-choice.Any body that is against helping them is a self-righteous hypocrites.

This thread has gone way off topic. In an attempt to bring it back to the OP, I think I'll address this portion of your message: I doubt anything I say will convince you that humans aren't special so, in line with the OP, I think we should figure out just when a human life starts. After you answer that question, perhaps we can address these others:

Please show where any of us said that we were against helping these women.

quote:

---

But I am also FOR helping all those millions of women who think they are suffering because of an ab. It makes no difference if it is real, self-inflicted, imaginary, or crammed down their throats by Fanatics of any kind, anti-abortion or pro-choice.

---

1) Please show data that indicates that "millions" of women claim to suffer from PASS. All of the data I have indicates that if it even exists, it is extremely rare.2) Nowhere in this thread have any of us said that we are not interested in helping women who suffer.Our point is that the best way to help them is to not encourage them to feel worse and worse. The best way to help them is to support them in their decision.Telling them that "You murdered your baby" is adding to their suffering.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

quote:

---

I am totally against abortion for any purpose to me it is murder no different than me shooting you with my pistol,

---

So, when does an egg and a sperm become a full human being?Or, are eggs and sperm also fully human?And, I am very interested in your thoughts on my posts to you, specifically #99 and #98.Edited by nator, : No reason given.

Just one question, and it is the essence of all your and nators replies. Then I will bow out of this horribly repeatitive subject here on EVC.When did I ever accuse anyone of being a slut? You both do this over and over, and that is put words in your oppositions mouth, which is, BTW lying. If you think you can win a debate, or convince the other side to change their minds, then you must not lie.We are not only talking about people who have irrisponsible sex, but husbands and wives, and boyfriend and girlfriend. If the girl I impregnated is a slut, then so am I. Why would I call anyone a slut?Your going to have to prove that I called anyone a slut. And if you can't you need to admit that you lie in your debates, and also seek help, or shoot your Pastor for calling you a slut or something, because I just don't know where that comes from.You also have to leave out God in your abortion debates with me. I have not brought up God, I am trying to argue this from a purely secular view. Stop putting on me whatever it is that you went through with your local church, it's not me, or do I represent them. It's really unfair of you. Your going to have a tough time, unless you start forgiving people, when you finally do, you'll be free.
It may be up to you to stop the BS that is happening in your church, but it's not up to you to make every "Christian" you meet to pay for the mistakes of one group of people. Just because people call themselves Christian, doesn't really make them one.And yes, I have had some minor pyshological training in school.
Both my sister studied it, and my best friend is a sociologist, who one day will be a psychologist. We talk about this stuff all the time.