Good drugs, bad drugs, legal drugs, illegal drugs

I'm spinning this topic off of another topic elsewhere.From http://EvC Forum: Saddam's a bad guy, so we should.... -->EvC Forum: Saddam's a bad guy, so we should...., zipzip said:

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Geez...you seem to have a problem with our criminal justice system. Few people are in prison for breaking laws they did not know existed. Everybody knows that it is illegal to steal someone else's car, but there are a lot of people in prison for that crime. The fact that they may be disproportionately minorities does not change that. Should we make grand theft auto a misdemeanor or perhaps not a crime at all?

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As far as the drug war, the problem has really been protection of the populace. As a physician, I am keenly aware that most banned substances are potentially deadly and/or extremely addictive.

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opiods -- ever had to drain an abcess from a heroin abuser who was so addicted heroin was the only thing in his life he gave a damn about? Who would do semi-surgical procedures on himself to get a hit? Have mercy -- heroin destroys life completely. It is the saddest thing I have ever seen and there is no safe recreational form, period.

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cocaine-- cardiac arrest, anyone? This is idiosyncratic and nobody can be informed enough of the risks to make it acceptable. It kills and I for one do not want to have to spend another 1000 hours doing CPR on another 1000 dead kids (it hurts to think of these people because it is such a $%#& waste).

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pot -- who knows what pot does, but it does have some long term neurolgical sequelae that young kids cannot be informed adequately about. It also makes sherm (pot+formaldehyde) which has produced some of the most messed-up, psychotic, and destroyed kids I have ever seen. A recent study shows that kids who smoke pot are at much increased risk of moving on to more deadly drugs. Pot is not a safe drug...move on.

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MDMA/ecstasy -- who knows how many cases of HIV this has led to, deaths from hyperthermia, etc. Also long term neurological sequelae likely. Of course it encourages the use of banned substances that are more likely to kill immediately.

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GABA derivatives -- psychosis inducing.

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Drug users should not be in jail. But as far as I am concerned, having seen what they do, drug pushers should be put to death. I hate what they do with a passion that knows no bounds.

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Now, as far as Europe...have your own opinions. But Arab countries know only strength and weakness, and they despise weakness and will take advantage of it.

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To which holmes replied (quote is drug related part of message)
From http://EvC Forum: Saddam's a bad guy, so we should.... -->EvC Forum: Saddam's a bad guy, so we should....

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Zipzip, you may be a great physician, and I do not dispute the horrors of drug addiction you just pointed out, but your fearmongering and slippery-slope arguments regarding general usage of some of them (most notably mdma and pot) are, well... just that.

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I would note that you left out the effects of general usage and addiction to alcohol, nicotine, and caffeine. All are currently legal though the first two have been considered gateway drugs, and alcohol itself was the target of the first war on drugs.

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The US feared that alcohol would weaken america, using all the fearmongering and slipperyslope arguments you just used for currently illegal drugs, and so made it illegal. The result was a worsening of the problem for those with alcohol addictions, and the creation of new and violent problems for the rest of society.

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In fact, prohibition created "pushers" of alcohol back then, that people wanted to see just as dead as you want to see the manufactered "pushers" of today.

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Eventually the regulation of social norms regarding alcohol were found to be a failure. End of prohibition.

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However, after 30 some odd years we went right back to prohibition like a junkie to a needle. Now it's these new drugs that are a threat to our strength and will weaken our standing in the world if we let people use them. Let's have a WAR ON DRUGS!

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Come to think of it let's have a WAR against anything we don't like. Anything that poses a threat to our strength.

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I'll chip in with my comments a bit later, but I wanted to get this topic started, before it ran on any further at the other topic.Moose

ABC television just broadcast a news show on Ecstasy. Much of the focus was on how the U.S. government exagerated the dangers, beyond any valid data (Not to mention that some lab rats were injected with speed by mistake).The part I really found ironic, however, were the commercial breaks with corporate America pushing their pharmaceutical products. I had to wonder what the relative effects and safety of the various drugs were?Unfortuately, I don't recall what drugs were being advertised. I think some or all may have been kind of allergy/feel good drugs. May have been some anti-depression type drugs. No Viagra ads though. That would have been the ultimate irony. I wonder where Viagra would be today, if it had come up a street drug, and not a corporate product?Good drugs, bad drugs, legal drugs, illegal drugs. And the most troubling, the spam drugs.Moose

The need for this topic has come up in another topic.Moose

Found out via Pat Robertson is Down with Weed - Little Green FootballsThe article itself:Raw Story - Celebrating 18 Years of Independent Journalism - 404 Not FoundMoose