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Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0 |
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Author | Topic: Iraq needed Saddam? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Another topic I believe is essential was the one from 2006 on why the Islamic World might be annoyed with us. It is at So let's look at why the Islamic world might be annoyed by the West?. Our sins will come due and the bill will get paid.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: In the interests of our own pocketbooks, we won't allow it. Other Nations have felt the same as you in their past; Egypt and Assyria, Carthage and then Rome, the Ottoman Empire; the Dutch and French and even Great Britain. What does the evidence show Phat?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Learn about Oligarchy.
Look at the evidence. What does the evidence show?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Western powers may argue that a lot of the infrastructure of the oilfields was installed by our contractors with our money. Thus, that oil is not nor ever should be simply Irans or iraqs to do with what they want. What if they decided to sell only to China, for example? We have a stake in that resource and feel we always should, I think. Stop and think Phat. Really. Have companies from other nations invested in the US? So if what you claim about Iran and Iraq's resources applies does that mean China should have similar access to US resources? And again, look at history. Was there an Imperial Power that had investments in Idia as an example and felt they had a similar stake in the wealth of India? Also wasn't there an Imperial Power that decided to simply take the resources it needed when the US placed an embargoes on things it needed like scrap iron and oil? What does the evidence show Phat. I understand you don't want to have to study history and reality but guess what? ... Edited by jar, : left applies out
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Phat writes: China only has relevance due to being an ally of Iran. You claimed that the US had some right to the Middle Eastern Oil because we invested in the original oil fields. China has invested throughout our industry, resources and real estate. By your reasoning China should have the same rights to our production and natural resources that you assert we have in the Middle Eastern natural resources. The issue is that the US has built a civilization based on taking resources from everyone else; the Iranians, the Nicaraguans, the Iraqis, the Colombians, the Native Americans, ... the list is near endless. Is there any reason that the rest of the world should continue to let us take their resources?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: If they suddenly stopped, would it push a large portion of us into poverty? That depends on just how stupid we continue to be. There is only one reason that Iran does not sell us oil and that is because we decided to place sanctions on Iranian Oil. As long as the US continues to act like the stupid bullies we have been then yes, we will suffer. And going down swinging is just another example of utter stupidity.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: Sanctions are one way we have of preventing their murdering our people. Yet the 9-11 folk were from Saudi Arabia and we do NOT sanction Saudi Arabia. One way to stop Iran from being a threat is to make Iran a partner. Do we not destroy our enemies when we make them our friends?'
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Iran wants us dead, we're the Great Satan, remember? Islam wants us dead. The only way they become "partners" with a nonMuslim nation is by pretense until they have the upper hand. Yet once again, reality proves you are wrong. Here is a list of predominately Muslim Countries that do not consider us The Great Satan. Country IndonesiaPakistan Bangladesh Nigeria Egypt Turkey Algeria Sudan Morocco Saudi Arabia Uzbekistan Niger Mali Malaysia Senegal Kazakhstan Burkina Faso Tunisia Guinea Jordan Azerbaijan Chad Tajikistan Libya Sierra Leone Turkmenistan Kyrgyzstan United Arab Emirates Mauritania Lebanon Oman Kuwait Albania Qatar Bahrain Djibouti Western Sahara Maldives Brunei Mayotte
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Perhaps, but do not underestimate the likelihood that it will happen. What else do you expect us to do? Turn the other cheek and pay the bill out of honor while we grow closer to poverty? No, this bill will get paid by everyone or no one. Phat, the bill will get paid. And just how do you imagine we can force anyone else to pay.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Well, how could they make us pay? You will most likely pay through pain and suffering. Remember Phat, the US is still an oil importer even though we right now export more than we import.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Aw. Poor Baby!
BUT... reality intrudes. No one sold you anything you did not buy. You got exactly what you wanted. Reality is not some secret that was hidden away. The question is... did YOU question? Did you learn about the world and history and what the US has done and why there was the Great Anomaly post WWII? Did you question the Apologists, both political and religious and really test what you were "being sold" against the reality of the product? So maybe you fools start a war. Will that help you? What do you know about United Fruit Company? What do you know about the Mexican War? What do you know about how many governments we have overthrown for purely commercial reasons? Can you even list them? I'll even give you the first. Hawaii! Edited by jar, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: What gets me about you and jars attitudes is the fact that you think the whole world needs help except us old-timers here in America. You are counting on Canada's social largesse to help you, and jar has been a conservative who socked away enough money to get him by in his golden years. Once again, you really need to stop posting absolutely false nonsense. Neither ringo or I have said that those in the US who need help should not get help. In fact we have said that we should do far more to protect Americans and that the problem stopping that is the tendency of US Voting Citizens to elect politicians that work to keep those who need help from getting help. But none of this has anything to do with the topic.
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: But getting back to what Iraq needs....what is it the rest of the developing world needs? And is it normal for the United States to view them as dengerous competitors? Do they steal from the US? Is competition a form of stealing? If a Starbucks opens in Damascus and is patronized by thousands of Iraqi's daily is it stealing from you? If we buy Iraqi oil instead of paying troops to guard the wells are they stealing from you? Which was most beneficial to the US, Japan as an enemy or Japan as an economic competitor? Which was most beneficial to the US, Germany as an enemy or Germany as an economic competitor? Which was most beneficial to the US, China as an enemy or China as an economic competitor? You can continue the list if you want. Many folk worry about the immigrants at our southern border. But why are they headed this way? What part did we play in creating the conditions that are driving them north? What could we do to ameliorate those conditions? Can you see a pattern developing?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: When the shoplifters steal $2,000.00 a day from my employer, I see them as essentially stealing from me. Is that part of the pattern? Likely.
Phat writes: And if Iraq sells its oil to China instead of the US, is it because of our price offer or is it because of our politics? Good start. What does the evidence show? How are oil prices set? But go further. Look at Iraq. What is Iraq and how did it come into existence? Almost all problems are political and so what political issues are unique to Iraq? What happened to Czechoslovakia? Why did it happen? How is Czechoslovakia similar to Iraq?
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jar Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Iran, Iraq, and many of the Islamic nations want nothing to do with copying. Are you sure? Can you even list the Islamic nations that we currently regularly do business with? In Message 73 there is a partial list. Look it over. If Iran and Iraq were actually given a chance to work with the rest of the world what do you think would happen? And Japan did not copy us, even today Japanese culture is far different than ours. Why would we even want any nation to copy us?
Phat writes: I think that the United States may even go so far as to fuel wars and dissent chiefly to attempt to sell our protection along with the business deals---and that our time is coming to an end. This worries me. Except Phat, we don't really sell protection, only the sizzle and not the steak. Ask the Kurds. Trump has repeatedly questioned whether or not the US should provide aid much less protection. And Europe and Asia and the rest of the world have taken notice. But you are still avoiding the issue in this topic. What happened to Czechoslovakia? Why did it happen? How is Czechoslovakia similar to Iraq? What happened to Yugoslavia? Why did it happen? How is Yugoslavia similar to Iraq?
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