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Author Topic:   Checking for validity of supposed early christian gay marriage rite
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 124 (482566)
09-17-2008 1:16 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Rrhain
09-16-2008 10:31 PM


Wow.... you are one pathetic troll.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Rrhain, posted 09-16-2008 10:31 PM Rrhain has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by LudoRephaim, posted 09-17-2008 6:19 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 124 (484864)
10-02-2008 11:37 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by LudoRephaim
09-17-2008 6:19 PM


Hey Catholic Scientist
Hi Ludo,
Good job in this thread. You have me convinced that Leviticus really is talking about homosexual activity.
I thought trolling was different from what Rrhain wrote. What is all entailed by "Trolling"?
From wiki:
quote:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial and irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
Do you still think Rrhain isn't a troll?

Science fails to recognize the single most potent element of human existence.
Letting the reigns go to the unfolding is faith, faith, faith, faith.
Science has failed our world.
Science has failed our Mother Earth.
-System of a Down, "Science"
He who makes a beast out of himself, gets rid of the pain of being a man.
-Avenged Sevenfold, "Bat Country"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by LudoRephaim, posted 09-17-2008 6:19 PM LudoRephaim has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Fosdick, posted 10-02-2008 12:35 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 72 by LudoRephaim, posted 10-05-2008 2:45 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 68 of 124 (484879)
10-02-2008 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by ramoss
10-02-2008 1:10 PM


Re: Toeyvah
Now, if you want to equate homosexual behavior with eating pork, and to condem it, I certainly hope you never had a BLT>
Christians have a New Testament too...
In our beliefs, homosexual activity is sinful but eating pork.... not so much.
The basis for the belief in the sinful nature of homosexual activity might be the same as for eating pork, but there's other stuff in the Bible after that.
There's nothing wrong with a christian condemning homosexuality while eating a BLT.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by ramoss, posted 10-02-2008 1:10 PM ramoss has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by ramoss, posted 10-02-2008 4:01 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 80 of 124 (485421)
10-08-2008 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Rrhain
10-07-2008 3:58 AM


Things that are "toeyvah" are ritually bad. Things that are "zimah" are inherently bad.
The common sense interpretation is that since it is not described as "zimah," it is not something that is inherently evil.
What is it about man-on-man sex that makes it a "toeyvah"?
Clearly, the text is referring to a sexual prohibition. But just because the sexual activity is between two people of the same sex does not mean that there is a blanket restriction on such.
So it is an "abomination" but it isn't blanketly restricted?
The passages are there to tell Jews how their ritualistic practices are different.
Simply different? It seems to say the are disallowed....
Since what we consider "homosexuality" simply did not exist as a concept at the time, we cannot simply claim that the passages referred to in the Torah are necessarily referring to what we, in modern times, call "homosexuality."
What's the difference between modern homosexual sex and man-on-man sex in Bible times?
I simply said that the understanding of what the passage means is very different from what people commonly say it means.
I easily could be. But still, it is saying that there is something bad about man-on-man sex, no?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Rrhain, posted 10-07-2008 3:58 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2008 5:42 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 82 of 124 (485531)
10-09-2008 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Rrhain
10-09-2008 5:42 AM


quote:
What is it about man-on-man sex that makes it a "toeyvah"?
The ritualistic part. It is in reference to the fertility rites of the pagans.
And it says nothing about non-ritualistic man-on-man sex?
Remember, there is no concept of what we would call "homosexuality."
If you mean talking with a lisp while having limp wrists, generally acting like a girl and saying "fabulous" a lot, then I agree.
But just plain ol' butt-fucking I don't.
So, shouldn't we do the same for this new concept of "homosexuality"?
As Christians, we have.
You can fake as heavy a lisp as you want, limp your wrists to the floor, put on a dress and just be as gay as you can be and it’s no problem. "Homosexuality" is not a sin.
The sin is in the sexual intercourse... the butt-fucking and cock-sucking.
quote:
Simply different?
Since when is "different" ever "simple"? Let's not play dumb.
Don't be dumb.
Here's what I wrote:
quote:
The passages are there to tell Jews how their ritualistic practices are different.
Simply different? It seems to say the are disallowed....
Sim*ply: -adverb
merely; only: It is simply a cold.
I even italicized different to emphasize the word. And then with the context of the following sentence, you can see that I was implying that it there is something more there than just saying they are different.
Is English your first language? Maybe if you didn’t chop up my post and reply to bits, you could follow.
I in no way implied that being different was simple.
Yes...ritually disallowed. Again, what we consider "homosexuality" simply did not exist as a concept at the time. Thus, we cannot simply claim that the passage refers to what we, in modern times, call "homosexuality."/
That’s fine. I think it is talking about man-on-man sex.
Having sex with the priest is different than having sex for love.
I see what you’re saying.
quote:
What's the difference between modern homosexual sex and man-on-man sex in Bible times?
The fact that the former is about forming a human relationship while the latter is about a fertility rite. Most gay people don't have sex for religion.
I can see your point now that the passage all on its own doesn’t necessarily say that gay sex is inherently evil. It does seem to imply, at least to me, that god has something against gay sex in general as well as for ritual with it being called an abomination and all and being listed right next to other "really bad things".
quote:
But still, it is saying that there is something bad about man-on-man sex, no?
Indeed, but one would have to be playing dumb to think that that was all there was to it. By this logic, mixed-sex sexual activity is even more problematic because the Bible goes on and on about how you're not supposed to do it. Only four passages restricting same-sex sex while there are more than 300 restrictions on mixed-sex sex. This doesn't mean god loves straight people less.
They just need more supervision.
Or there’s more of it . .
And one could be not playing dumb but just not know the background.
As Christians, we believe that same-sex sex is a also sin when its outside of marriage. So, yeah, they’re both wrong.
Again, there was no concept of what we would call "homosexuality" back then. To think that this passage, therefore, refers to what we would call "homosexuality" is disingenuous at best. There might be something, but it isn't to be found in this bare passage.
I understand your point now.
I wouldn’t say that the passage refers to “homosexuality” but that it does refer to gay sex. That the ritual gay sex was an abomination doesn’t imply that non-ritual gay sex is an abomination, all on its own, but this passage does add weight to the claim that god has a problem with gay sex.
Why were the pagans having sex with the priests as a ritual? What was the point?
OK...I'm not really joking about it. When was the last time you heard about sex for religion?
In The Da Vinci Code.

The passage is referencing ritualistic sex and when was the last time you heard of people having sex with priests?
Oops...sorry about that.
When was the last time you heard of people having sex with priests?
Damn it...did it again. Sorry.
When did you last hear of people having sex with priests?
D'oh! Why do I keep saying that?
This is the epitome of “playing dumb” you fucking hypocrite.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Rrhain, posted 10-09-2008 5:42 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Rrhain, posted 10-10-2008 3:03 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 90 of 124 (485643)
10-10-2008 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by Rrhain
10-10-2008 3:03 AM


You gave me no indication that you intend to honestly debate. I'll clear up some of your misunderstandings, but I won't waste my time on most of your bullshit.
What part of "no concept of what we call 'homosexuality'" are you having trouble with?
First off, the part where you supported your assertion.
Secondly, that they did have man-on-man sex and that homos have man-on-man sex so to say that they had no concept of it is misleading.
And finally, to point out how much of a douchebag you are, I could have replied:
"Oh, You speak for all humanity? Strange how there are so many people that don't seem to share your interpretation of what "homosexuality" means...."
And you wonder why you keep getting tagged as a bigot.
Meh, not so much.
Second: You will note that you were the one who said "simply different," not me. Therefore, what makes you think I was using "different" SIMPLY (hah!) to mean distinct, dissimilar, variant, other, or nondescript?
That's why I fucking asked, you dumbass.
You said that the passage says that they're different. I asked if you're saying that the passage just says that they're different and nothing more. Then you go off on one word out of both sentences. So fuck you, dick.
You put words in my mouth and now you're complaining that I'm not accepting your changing of my words. I didn't say "simply different," so why on earth did you respond as if I did?
I didn't. Your reading ability is remedial. That, or you do this on purpose (my suspicion).
I asked if you were saying that the passage just says they are different or if there more to it than that.
The Law exists not "simply" to define Jews from other groups. It is to hammer home the point that they are not other groups. They are the chosen ones. There is a purpose to the defining characteristics of identity.
You could have just responded with this, but instead you’d rather be an asshole. So fuck off.
quote:
I wouldn’t say that the passage refers to “homosexuality” but that it does refer to gay sex.
You do realize that you just contradicted yourself. If it isn't about "homosexuality," then it cannot be about "gay" sex because "gay" and "homosexuality" are the same thing.
“gay” is an adjective and “homosexuality” is a noun. I was assuming that there’s more to “homosexuality” that just “gay sex” but I guess I was wrong. I dunno, you’re the gay one, you tell me.
The passage refers to sex between two males. Surely you aren't saying that all sex between people of the same sex are "gay," are you?
Pretty much.
But it isn't "gay sex." It's "ritual sex." It happens to be between people of the same sex, but that doesn't make it "gay."
I don’t believe that.
Your position is that perfectly straight men would go buttfuck the priest as a fertility ritual and that the passage says that this man-on-man sex was an abomination but sense it was talking about it during the ritual, it isn’t referring to buttfucking outside of the ritual so therefore it isn’t saying anything at all about the modern buttfuckers of today.
It seems biased to me. But then, if I was gay, I guess I’d have that bias too.
quote:
doesn’t imply that non-ritual gay sex is an abomination, all on its own, but this passage does add weight to the claim that god has a problem with gay sex.
Only if you also claim that all the other passages describing straight sex as abomination "add weight to the claim that god has a problem with straight sex." Do you?
Yes.
All the passages in the Bible regarding sex between people of the same sex are in reference to sex with priests.
Maybe when you twist the passages that reference gay sex into NOT being about gay sex like you do to the story of Lot.
quote:
This is the epitome of “playing dumb” you fucking hypocrite.
(*chuckle*)
If it is inappropriate when I do it, what might that indicate about how to respond when you do it?
But you assume that people are playing dumb when they’re not.
But whatever. I had an honest question that I thought you might be able to honestly answer. But it turns out that you can’t. You'd rather be an asshole. So fuck you. I’ll start ignoring you again.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Rrhain, posted 10-10-2008 3:03 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by Rrhain, posted 10-11-2008 2:28 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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