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Author Topic:   The Origins of Christianity
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 1 of 23 (127492)
07-25-2004 1:52 PM


I was wondering where I can get more information on the Origins of Christianity. (Note Christians DO NOT tell me to read the bible please) Can you guys please recommend books and websites? I have only touched on this and I would like to do more research.
Thanks in Advance

My site The Atheist Bible
My New Debate Fourms!

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 07-25-2004 3:01 PM DC85 has not replied
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 Message 19 by jar, posted 07-26-2004 3:23 PM DC85 has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 23 (127503)
07-25-2004 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DC85
07-25-2004 1:52 PM


Title change
May I suggest making the title:"The Origins Of Christianity"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by DC85, posted 07-25-2004 1:52 PM DC85 has not replied

  
DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 3 of 23 (127531)
07-25-2004 6:58 PM



  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 4 of 23 (127532)
07-25-2004 7:02 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 5 of 23 (127556)
07-25-2004 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by DC85
07-25-2004 1:52 PM


Origins of Christianity
Greetings DC85,
Well,
opinions vary :-)
Here is a list of HJ (Historical Jesus) books -
Errantskeptics.org
And a list of MJ (Mythical Jesus) books -
http://www.amazon.com/...
{Shortened display form of URL, to restore page width to normal - Adminnemooseus}
You might like Peter Kirby's
"Historical Jesus Theories"
Historical Jesus Theories
which is a useful overview.
Of course, nothing beats checking for yourself (not telling you to "read the Bible" :-), here are two great sites for sources -
Peter Kirby's
"Early Christian Writings"
Early Christian Writings: New Testament, Apocrypha, Gnostics, Church Fathers
The Church Fathers -
CHURCH FATHERS: Home
And finally, my plug for my site -
iiNet | naked dsl - broadband - adsl - phone - voip
Iasion
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 07-26-2004 12:50 AM

This message is a reply to:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 4707 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 6 of 23 (127570)
07-25-2004 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Kapyong
07-25-2004 9:17 PM


Re: Origins of Christianity
Thanks for such a nicely done site. Well done!
lfen

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DC85
Member
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 7 of 23 (127581)
07-25-2004 11:12 PM


anything else? I am looking for "Pagan" myths that lead to it.
I will check this out though. thanks
This message has been edited by DC85, 07-25-2004 10:14 PM

My site The Atheist Bible
My New Debate Fourms!

Replies to this message:
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 Message 10 by Kapyong, posted 07-26-2004 1:55 AM DC85 has replied

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5621 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 8 of 23 (127596)
07-26-2004 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by DC85
07-25-2004 11:12 PM


Christianity Origin was prophecied within the Books of Adam and Eve!
We all know that the Word is inerrant, that the Word God was sent to become flesh, and that the Creation Week took 7,000 years, that Adam died within the day that he committed eating the forbidden fruit kjv genesis 2:17, however, the Word being sent to save Adam and his descendants in 5 1/2 days and that the God day was equal to 1000 of our years can be correlated from the flood to the birth of Christ, the Word made flesh, cause Adam was born in the 6th God day, therefore he died in the 7th God day, with Jesus being born approximately 2,000 years ago, this correlates with the 5 1/2 God days from Adam being cast from the Garden of Eden to Christ the Word being made flesh. It also correlates quite well with the creationists belief that from the end of the 7th Creation day to present is approximately 6,000 years past, etc...
P.S. With respect that Gap theory and the Creation days being 1000 years, its quite interesting that the math correlates with Adam dying in the 7th God day, and Christs birth being 5 1/2 days which interestingly appears to be perhaps the very first documented prophecy in regards to the Word being sent being fullfilled 2,000 years past, which is the basis of the Christian faith. You have the gospel of John talking too but this was written after the fact, the books of Adam and Eve were written before the fact (not that there is not other prophecies within the Christian Bible kjv), of the Word God being sent, you were looking for another reputable writting in respect to the Origin of Christianity, supportting Christianities origins came from God, its called prophecy, and this prophecy interestingly supports the Creation week taking 7000 years, the gap theory, for this book support 2 peter 3:8 that one of Gods days is as a thousand of our years to the Lord. This is all evidence supporting God's the Creator, and the Savior of his Creation, etc...
Enjoy reading the first book ever written of our Glorious Savior and Lord, the first prophecy of his taking on flesh, of raising Adam from death, the Christians hope of the Word being the resurrection and the life, and interestingly this book was written before the book of Job, who too talked of the Savior, and the resurrection. Its all about the roots of the Christian faith are from God, for he responsible for the Word God being sent, in the flesh, the basis of the Christian faith written thousands of years before the Lord Jesus birth made of the seed of a woman, the first prophecy being from God, and that the Word was the Resurrection and the life, all supporting the prophetic prophecies of the bible, which you did not want to be directed to, so I direct you to read the books of adam and eve, and enjoy! The first documentations by God in respect to the Christian faith, the Word coming in the flesh, the Savior, etc...
Forgotten Books of Eden: First Book of Adam and Eve
Chapter II - Adam and Eve faint when they leave the Garden. God sends His Word to encourage them.
1 But when our father Adam, and Eve, went out of the garden, they walked the ground on their feet, not knowing they were walking. 2 And when they came to the opening of the gate of the garden, and saw the broad earth spread before them, covered with stones large and small, and with sand, they feared and trembled, and fell on their faces, from the fear that came over them; and they were as dead. 3 Because -- whereas until this time they had been in the garden land, beautifully planted with all manner of trees -- they now saw themselves, in a strange land, which they knew not, and had never seen. 4 And because, when they were in the garden they were filled with the grace of a bright nature, and they had not hearts turned toward earthly things. 5 Therefore God had pity on them; and when He saw them fallen before the gate of the garden, He sent His Word to our father, Adam and Eve, and raised them from their fallen state.
Chapter III - Concerning the promise of the great five and a half days.
1 God said to Adam, "I have ordained on this earth days and years, and you and your descendants shall live and walk in them, until the days and years are fulfilled; when I shall send the Word that created you, and against which you have transgressed, the Word that made you come out of the garden, and that raised you when you were fallen. 2 Yes, the Word that will again save you when the five and a half days are fulfilled." 3 But when Adam heard these words from God, and of the great five and a half days, he did not understand the meaning of them. 4 For Adam was thinking there would be only five and a half days for him until the end of the world. 5 And Adam cried, and prayed to God to explain it to him. 6 Then God in his mercy for Adam who was made after His own image and likeness, explained to him, that these were 5,000 and 500 years; and how One would then come and save him and his descendants. 7 But before that, God had made this covenant with our father, Adam, in the same terms, before he came out of the garden, when he was by the tree where Eve took of the fruit and gave it to him to eat. 8 Because, when our father Adam came out of the garden, he passed by that tree, and saw how God had changed the appearance of it into another form, and how it shriveled. 9 And as Adam went to it he feared, trembled and fell down; but God in His mercy lifted him up, and then made this covenant with him. 10 And again, when Adam was by the gate of the garden, and saw the cherub with a sword of flashing fire in his hand, and the cherub grew angry and frowned at him, both Adam and Eve became afraid of him, and thought he meant to put them to death. So they fell on their faces, trembled with fear. 11 But he had pity on them, and showed them mercy; and turning from them went up to heaven, and prayed to the Lord, and said; -- 12 "Lord, You sent me to watch at the gate of the garden, with a sword of fire. 13 But when Your servants, Adam and Eve, saw me, they fell on their faces, and were as dead. O my Lord, what shall we do to Your servants?" 14 Then God had pity on them, and showed them mercy, and sent His Angel to keep the garden. 15 And the Word of the Lord came to Adam and Eve, and raised them up. 16 And the Lord said to Adam, "I told you that at the end of the five and a half days, I will send my Word and save you. 17 Strengthen your heart, therefore, and stay in the Cave of Treasures, of which I have before spoken to you." 18 And when Adam heard this Word from God, he was comforted with that which God had told him. For He had told him how He would save him.
This message has been edited by whatever, 07-26-2004 01:09 AM
This message has been edited by whatever, 08-10-2004 10:37 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by DC85, posted 07-25-2004 11:12 PM DC85 has replied

Replies to this message:
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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 9 of 23 (127608)
07-26-2004 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by johnfolton
07-26-2004 12:33 AM


Off topic
Post something this far off topic here again and you will be suspended from posting to this forum.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by johnfolton, posted 07-26-2004 12:33 AM johnfolton has not replied

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Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 10 of 23 (127617)
07-26-2004 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by DC85
07-25-2004 11:12 PM


Pagan pre-cursors to Jesus
Greetings again,
There are quite a few sites dealing with pagan origins of Christianity, here are a few -
No webpage found at provided URL: http://home.earthlink.net/~pgwhacker/ChristianOrigins/
No webpage found at provided URL: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/dp5/christian.htm
Origins of Christianity | Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ
Added -
A fascinating site suggesting the Gospels originated in a play by Seneca -
No webpage found at provided URL: http://www.nazarenus.com/
You also may be interested to learn about a certain
IASIUS who -
* was son-of-god
* was born of a virgin
* brought religious mysteries to man
* was tragically killed
* later rose to heaven
iiNet | naked dsl - broadband - adsl - phone - voip
Iasion
This message has been edited by Iasion, 07-26-2004 01:18 AM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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entwine
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 23 (127624)
07-26-2004 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by AdminNosy
07-26-2004 1:31 AM


Re: Off topic
What's the problem? The originator was looking for different sources than the bible for the origin of Christianity. And DC85 gave one. It was a rather large example of the reference and the web address would have been adequate, but banning?? Have a problem with the site?? You have to admit that human involvement with Christianity begins with Adam and Eve.

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 14 by Kapyong, posted 07-26-2004 2:37 AM entwine has replied

  
entwine
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 23 (127625)
07-26-2004 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Kapyong
07-26-2004 1:55 AM


Re: Pagan pre-cursors to Jesus
Thanks for the links, Iasion. Seems everything new is borrowed. But I wonder who the borrowers took from. What is the first story??

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Kapyong, posted 07-26-2004 1:55 AM Kapyong has replied

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3976
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 13 of 23 (127626)
07-26-2004 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by entwine
07-26-2004 2:18 AM


Re: Off topic
I assume that you meant whatever and not DC85.
Please take this discussion to the "Change in Moderation?" topic (link in "signature" below.
Adminnemooseus

Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
Change in Moderation?
or
Thread Reopen Requests

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Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 14 of 23 (127628)
07-26-2004 2:37 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by entwine
07-26-2004 2:18 AM


Re: Off topic
Greetings entwine,
Frankly, I agree with Admin.
DC85 asked for sources to do RESEARCH,
and he specifically asked Christians not to answer with "read the Bible" (which implies "do not preach".)
Then whatever waded in, starting with -
"We all know the Word is inerrant..."
which instantly tells us a religious rant follows.
Sure enough, we get preaching about PROPHESY and slabs of dubious scripture (which bears no connection to Jesus.) No facts, no argument, no point.
In short,
the OP asked for sources to help research, and one of our local blowflies responded with the usual religious clap-trap.
Honestly, I am sick and tired of this sort of crap clogging up the site and lowering its quality - I vote for banning such people.
Iasion
{From Adminnemooseus - This discussion is off-topic here. Please take any such to Change in Moderation?}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 07-26-2004 01:56 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by entwine, posted 07-26-2004 2:18 AM entwine has replied

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Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 15 of 23 (127633)
07-26-2004 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by entwine
07-26-2004 2:23 AM


Re: Pagan pre-cursors to Jesus
Greetings again,
Yes,
hard to say for sure when the story began...
Osiris seems to be the earliest form of the myth -
while first known from mid 3rd M. BCE,
the mysteries of Osiris developed in Abydos, mid 2nd M. BCE, AFAIR.
Iasion

This message is a reply to:
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