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Author Topic:   The improbability argument
GoodIntentions 
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 6 (278230)
01-11-2006 4:50 PM


Being a nerd that I am, I was watching a Nova program last night on bird flu.
Some facts I learned that I didn't know before:
1) In 1918 an outbreak of bird flu occured in the human population that killed 50 million people.
2) Most variations of the virus that causes bird flu only infects the lower abdominal regions, literally causing the infected to poop out the virus.
3) In 1918, the outbreak occured in the human population because a random mutation somewhere along the line gave a specific variation of the virus the "recipe" for cough and sneeze.
4) If you put an infinite number of monkeys in an infinitely large room with an infinite number of typewriters and each monkey would start randomly pushing the typewriters' buttons, you're going to have at least 1 perfect copy of Hamlet.
5) We do not know what the "recipe" for cough and sneeze is so we can't really estimate the probability of a specific virus being produced inside a specific cell of a specific bird at a specific time, right down to the millisecond, at a specific place with a specific person susceptible to the new mutation living among a specific human population in a specific region that allows the infection to spread beyond the local area at a specific relative time that allows the infection the opportunity to spread to 50 million people before it was contained.
We do not know what the recipe for cough and sneeze is, so we cannot really estimate the probability of it occuring considering the following factors:
i) a specific virus being produced inside a specific cell
ii) of a specific bird at a specific time, right down to the millisecond,
iii) at a specific place with a specific person susceptible to the new mutation
iv) living among a specific human population
v) in a specific region that allows the infection to spread beyond the local area
vi) at a specific relative time that allows the infection the opportunity to spread to 50 million people before it was contained
6) Yet, in 1918 it happened!
Relating the Nova program to the improbability argument on both abiogenesis and events of so-called positive mutations that allow a specific individual belonging to a specific population living in a specific environment that favors certain specific traits within that specific population at a specific time frame for the mutations to be truly positive with the specific conditions to allow the individual to spread its advantageous mutation enough that it would one day change the allele frequency of the population, *deep breath* how improbable is it that it has to be labeled as impossible by creationists and how do we know how to calculate the probability?
Relating the Nova program to the improbability argument on both abiogenesis and events of so-called positive mutations considering the following factors:
i) that allow a specific individual
ii) belonging to a specific population
iii) living in a specific environment that favors certain specific traits within that specific population
iv) at a specific time frame for the mutations to be truly positive
v) with the specific conditions to allow the individual to spread its advantageous mutation enough that it would one day change the allele frequency of the population
how improbable is it that it has to be labeled as impossible by creationists and how do we know how to calculate the probability?
Where to put this? I'll rely on an admin's pressumably good judgement on this life and death issue.
This message has been edited by GoodIntentions, 01-11-2006 06:27 PM
This message has been edited by GoodIntentions, 01-11-2006 08:50 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNWR, posted 01-11-2006 5:38 PM GoodIntentions has replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 6 (278255)
01-11-2006 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by GoodIntentions
01-11-2006 4:50 PM


Needs work
Paragraph 5 in your OP consists of one long sentence (shows up as 5 lines in my browser).
Paragraph 6 contains an even longer sentence.
These long sentences are difficult to read. Can you find a way of rewriting them into several sentences, and such that it is easier to read.
Can you also check the date. I did not see that Nova program. However, it is my impression that the major bird flu outbreak from that era was 1917-1918, and not 1913.
I'm thinking "Intelligent Design" as the forum for this, since it is mainly in ID arguments that improbability is used. Any comment from you or other admins is welcome.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by GoodIntentions, posted 01-11-2006 4:50 PM GoodIntentions has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by GoodIntentions, posted 01-11-2006 6:25 PM AdminNWR has replied

GoodIntentions 
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 6 (278269)
01-11-2006 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminNWR
01-11-2006 5:38 PM


Re: Needs work
You are absolutely right. It was in fact 1918. Regarding the long sentences, as far as I know they are not run-ons.
This message has been edited by GoodIntentions, 01-11-2006 06:26 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminNWR, posted 01-11-2006 5:38 PM AdminNWR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by AdminNWR, posted 01-11-2006 7:12 PM GoodIntentions has replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 6 (278284)
01-11-2006 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by GoodIntentions
01-11-2006 6:25 PM


Re: Needs work
Regarding the long sentences, as far as I know they are not run-ons.
It isn't a question of run-ons. It is a question of readability.
If you copied these long sentences from elsewhere - that's against the site guidelines. You are supposed to present the information in your own words, and provide citations where appropriate. If these are your own words, then you should be able to find a better way of presenting the idea.
I would like to see a good discussion of your topic. Let's make it easy enough to read that people can find something there that they want to discuss.
How about trying again.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by GoodIntentions, posted 01-11-2006 6:25 PM GoodIntentions has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by GoodIntentions, posted 01-11-2006 8:40 PM AdminNWR has replied

GoodIntentions 
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 6 (278300)
01-11-2006 8:40 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminNWR
01-11-2006 7:12 PM


Re: Needs work
Why not try to google those words to see if they turn up elsewhere? I triple double dare you to.
Anyway, I'll rewrite it, although I still think it's fine the way it is.
This message has been edited by GoodIntentions, 01-11-2006 08:40 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by AdminNWR, posted 01-11-2006 7:12 PM AdminNWR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by AdminNWR, posted 01-11-2006 10:11 PM GoodIntentions has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 6 (278314)
01-11-2006 10:11 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by GoodIntentions
01-11-2006 8:40 PM


Re: Needs work
You didn't really rewrite. But your reformatting of the sentences does improve readability.
Opening post promoted to The improbability argument.
Closing this copy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by GoodIntentions, posted 01-11-2006 8:40 PM GoodIntentions has not replied

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